Milton

Orange

40 posts in this topic

Had many problems with Orange. Just wanted to get this off my chest.

Got a text today stating:

Were increasing the cost of your monthly plan by 4.35% from 8th January 2012

So, I called them to ask them to direct me to the clause which allows them to increase my costs over and above that which was agreed, bother verbally and in writing when I signed up for the 24 month contract?

Each time I called them, and choose the options to discuss this, I get the automated message that there is a queue for 30 minutes.

Just as a [perverse] experiment, Ive called them 4 times this afternoon, and each time it has run over 30 minutes, without anyone answering.

[Had it on low volume on speaker, whilst I was doing something else.]

So over 2 hours on the phone, without anyone answering.

HOWEVER

If I call ORANGE's sales line, as a new customer, an orange representative answers every time, within one minute........................

Obviously becuase they are not interested in employing staff to properly service the customers who pay their wages, only in dragging in more new people.

They finally answered this evening. And told me:

clause 4.3

we can increase the charges by an amount equal to or less than the percentage in the the 'all items index,' of retail prices published, by the central statistical office in the monthly digest of statistics in any 12 month period. Or if the variations we have made have been imposed upon us as a direst result of new legislation, statutory instrument, government regulation or license.

So why have you increased the costs? I asked them

Bacially Orange state that their costs must rise in line with the Retail Price Index.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why is there no law on the side of the consumer, to make Orange [and others] answer the phone within a fair time frame?

Why isnt there a law or precedent whch states that if a mobile phone company states that this is the price of the contract, they must abide by that for the length of the contract and not be allowed to increase it?

Why dont any of our lousy [scumsucking p1g******ing Ministers] do anything about this?

THE RPI and THE CPI is all a big lie.

Elected politicians spin it. The Government of the day assume its their right to lie about it.

But what happens when it bears absolutely no resembelance whatsoever to peoples income? Because thats where we are.

[Houses included which were forced to rise by 300% in a decade, whilst the median wage rose by £6.5k?]

Is it because Ministers dont have a clue how hard it is to make ends meet on their massive wages?

Its just another example of them and us, blatant corporatism.

Edited by Milton

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Its got to be bad news for house prices and the economy! :rolleyes:

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The price rise was being discussed on MSE (I think it was)

OFCOM's ruling (actually, I think it's part of wider consumer contract legislation) means that should a change be made that's to your material detriment - such as a price rise - the customer may exit without any penalty if they wish to before the rise takes effect.

However Orange's Ts & Cs permit for rises in line with inflation, which they say override that.

I'm sure this will be put to the test now. Personally I'd have thought Orange are in the right here, and the onus is on the customer to check Ts & Cs when signing up - the customer agreed that Orange could raise the price, so it's enshrined in the core terms.

Doesn't mean they'll be popular though :)

My last conversation with Orange came after I cancelled all my direct debits after yet another ****-up and have never used that payment method since. At which point a mysterious £4 charge appeared on my bill. Which apparently was a charge for not allowing them open access to my bank account.

Given I'd been with them for about 8 years averaging £60+ a month I simply gave them the option to scrub the charge and be paid via BACS/FP, or lose me as a customer. They opted for the latter. I got a PAYG SIM with Vodafone instead and found I then saved about £50 a month because it made me mindful of just how expensive mobile phones are, and discovered VOIP instead. Nice one Orange.

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OFCOM's ruling (actually, I think it's part of wider consumer contract legislation) means that should a change be made that's to your material detriment - such as a price rise - the customer may exit without any penalty if they wish to before the rise takes effect.

However Orange's Ts & Cs permit for rises in line with inflation, which they say override that.

Personally I'd have thought Orange are in the right here, and the onus is on the customer to check Ts & Cs when signing up - the customer agreed that Orange could raise the price, so it's enshrined in the core terms.

Informed and Comprehensive. [Thanks Mark.] Like you, Ive had an account with for many years, an this is just tip of the iceberg stuff with them. Its a constant battle of swallowing shit.

I hope it is challenged. It wont be though.

Orange is not in the right. The CONSUMER is being screwed at every opportunity. There shoud be stricter fines and guidelines, and far far superior regulatory bodies, with more powers, on the SIDE of the consumer.

Including the Office Fair Trading, Trading Standards, Finaincial Ombundsman, ETC ETC The More complex our society becomes the more Corporatist, undemocratic, and one sided it becomes. Its just become overwhelming. The opposite of Liberty is Slavery.

My general feeling is that I have to spend ten times as much time dealing with various issues,with all sorts of utility, isp, telecomm, etc etc companies as i did ten years ago. And I am so sick of it.

Edited by Milton

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If a company puts something in their T&Cs that doesn't override your rights as a consumer.

Having said that, price rises are pretty standard in most industries, so I think you could be stuck. Just show Orange the door when the contract is up.

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I had that text too, and my minimum contract period has expired. I'm therefore thinking about changing my mobile phone contract.

My current contract is around £30 a month, which includes Blackberry email and all-you-can-eat mobile web, plus several hundred free minutes and texts. I barely use the thing as a phone at all (one or two calls a month if that), and only really use it as a mobile emailing device. The following factors are in play that might make things a bit tricky, though.

1. I'm planning to emigrate to the US when I get married, probably next July-September (exact dates not fixed as yet). Therefore, I don't want to enter a new minimum-term contract of longer than six months.

2. I don't care about inclusive call minutes or texts, as I barely do any of either.

3. Blackberry email (and I receive a lot of them - probably 70-100 messages a day, which eats a significant amount of bandwidth, I guess) is a must, and reasonably priced web browsing desirable.

4. International roaming in the US is highly desirable. I don't care if it costs are into ãrse rape territory because I only ever use the facility at airports (as soon as I'm in my other half's house I connect to her wifi), but I do need the facility. However, if there is a seriously money-saving alternative that does not offer international roaming, I can live with it. My former BB is now unlocked, and I could get a US PAYG SIM for it.

5. Being able to keep my existing phone number is highly desirable, as I've had it for over a decade and it's an easy one to remember.

If anyone can suggest an alternative to the Orange contract that would work within those parameters, then the suggestion would be gratefully appreciated. Otherwise I'll probably just bite the bullet and stick with my existing contract for my last few months here.

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Seem to attract crappy customers too. If I ever have to deal with total timewasters and tossers 'the Orange mobile you are calling is switched off'.

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I had that text too, and my minimum contract period has expired. I'm therefore thinking about changing my mobile phone contract.

My current contract is around £30 a month, which includes Blackberry email and all-you-can-eat mobile web, plus several hundred free minutes and texts. I barely use the thing as a phone at all (one or two calls a month if that), and only really use it as a mobile emailing device. The following factors are in play that might make things a bit tricky, though.

1. I'm planning to emigrate to the US when I get married, probably next July-September (exact dates not fixed as yet). Therefore, I don't want to enter a new minimum-term contract of longer than six months.

2. I don't care about inclusive call minutes or texts, as I barely do any of either.

3. Blackberry email (and I receive a lot of them - probably 70-100 messages a day, which eats a significant amount of bandwidth, I guess) is a must, and reasonably priced web browsing desirable.

4. International roaming in the US is highly desirable. I don't care if it costs are into ãrse rape territory because I only ever use the facility at airports (as soon as I'm in my other half's house I connect to her wifi), but I do need the facility. However, if there is a seriously money-saving alternative that does not offer international roaming, I can live with it. My former BB is now unlocked, and I could get a US PAYG SIM for it.

5. Being able to keep my existing phone number is highly desirable, as I've had it for over a decade and it's an easy one to remember.

If anyone can suggest an alternative to the Orange contract that would work within those parameters, then the suggestion would be gratefully appreciated. Otherwise I'll probably just bite the bullet and stick with my existing contract for my last few months here.

I'd take the additional £7.83 hit (over six months). When you speak to thr 'retentions' dept. be sure to let them know your reasons for termination is the price increase and not the emigrating one.

:)

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I got a PAYG SIM with Vodafone instead and found I then saved about £50 a month because it made me mindful of just how expensive mobile phones are, and discovered VOIP instead. Nice one Orange.

I had an Orange contract for 3 or 4 years and decided to switch to O2 PAYG as I wasn't using the included minutes and texts. Have been on PAYG for 7 years now and it's great. It's simple, it works, and it's hassle free. I'm surprised more people don't switch to PAYG given the number of horror stories I hear.

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I had that text too, and my minimum contract period has expired. I'm therefore thinking about changing my mobile phone contract.

My current contract is around £30 a month, which includes Blackberry email and all-you-can-eat mobile web, plus several hundred free minutes and texts. I barely use the thing as a phone at all (one or two calls a month if that), and only really use it as a mobile emailing device. The following factors are in play that might make things a bit tricky, though.

1. I'm planning to emigrate to the US when I get married, probably next July-September (exact dates not fixed as yet). Therefore, I don't want to enter a new minimum-term contract of longer than six months.

2. I don't care about inclusive call minutes or texts, as I barely do any of either.

3. Blackberry email (and I receive a lot of them - probably 70-100 messages a day, which eats a significant amount of bandwidth, I guess) is a must, and reasonably priced web browsing desirable.

4. International roaming in the US is highly desirable. I don't care if it costs are into ãrse rape territory because I only ever use the facility at airports (as soon as I'm in my other half's house I connect to her wifi), but I do need the facility. However, if there is a seriously money-saving alternative that does not offer international roaming, I can live with it. My former BB is now unlocked, and I could get a US PAYG SIM for it.

5. Being able to keep my existing phone number is highly desirable, as I've had it for over a decade and it's an easy one to remember.

If anyone can suggest an alternative to the Orange contract that would work within those parameters, then the suggestion would be gratefully appreciated. Otherwise I'll probably just bite the bullet and stick with my existing contract for my last few months here.

On T-Mobile PAYG, Blackberry - 6 months (6MONTHBB text) for £20, free emails, BB + data - unlimited still I think (or something like 1gb limit). Number transfer shouldn't be a problem - just beed PAC Code I think it is calle?.

Rest is normal free PAYG, spend £10 in one month in calls/texts get free texts next month.

Obvious downside - roaming - get separate sim or phone for that matter!

Edited by OnlyMe

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I'd argue a 24 month term price is fixed.

If it's an open ended contract then it can be upped.

But I don't even understand why people have contract phones anyway.

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I'd argue a 24 month term price is fixed.

If it's an open ended contract then it can be upped.

But I don't even understand why people have contract phones anyway.

It's so they can have the latest iPhone or whatever @ £x/month without having to buy the phone, the network subsidises the handset cost in exchange for you becoming a cash-stream, and hopes you'll go over your allowances during the contract so you can be stung with big bills at least once in a while.

Actually, and less facetiously, if you're a heavy user then I can see the point. But in my case since I work from home and can use VOIP what I need is more of a pocket computer than a phone, so it makes more sense to buy it outright and not get saddled with a contract.

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It's so they can have the latest iPhone or whatever @ £x/month without having to buy the phone, the network subsidises the handset cost in exchange for you becoming a cash-stream, and hopes you'll go over your allowances during the contract so you can be stung with big bills at least once in a while.

Actually, and less facetiously, if you're a heavy user then I can see the point. But in my case since I work from home and can use VOIP what I need is more of a pocket computer than a phone, so it makes more sense to buy it outright and not get saddled with a contract.

Do heavy phone users have more of a social life, or less?

There's a real addiction and I find it really annoying watching people twiddle with their phones whilst they're having conversations (or trying to) with people around them.

I think there was a survey taht said most people don't use anywhere near all their minutes etc and so are wasting money.

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On T-Mobile PAYG, Blackberry - 6 months (6MONTHBB text) for £20, free emails, BB + data - unlimited still I think (or something like 1gb limit). Number transfer shouldn't be a problem - just beed PAC Code I think it is calle?.

Rest is normal free PAYG, spend £10 in one month in calls/texts get free texts next month.

Obvious downside - roaming - get separate sim or phone for that matter!

Many thanks - will investigate.

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Do heavy phone users have more of a social life, or less?

There's a real addiction and I find it really annoying watching people twiddle with their phones whilst they're having conversations (or trying to) with people around them.

I think there was a survey taht said most people don't use anywhere near all their minutes etc and so are wasting money.

I'd hazard a guess that's because to get the latest thing (iPhone, Galaxy S2 or whatever) going the contract route you end up having to take a higher package than you need, so you end up with more minutes than you can, or do, use.

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I'd hazard a guess that's because to get the latest thing (iPhone, Galaxy S2 or whatever) going the contract route you end up having to take a higher package than you need, so you end up with more minutes than you can, or do, use.

So shiny shiny hynotises people again... :)

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I'd hazard a guess that's because to get the latest thing (iPhone, Galaxy S2 or whatever) going the contract route you end up having to take a higher package than you need, so you end up with more minutes than you can, or do, use.

The pricing structure is designed to encourage that, isn't it? As in, you can buy the phone standalone and outright for £500, or on a one-year contract at £30 a month (total cost £360).

Update: The T-Mobile Blackberry PAYG looks like it'll work for me for everything except international roaming, and for a tenner a month. I've ordered the SIM and am now in the process of trying to phone Orange to give my 30 days' notice. This is easier said than done - I've now been on hold listening to crappy 1980s easy listening on speakerphone for half an hour and counting...

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The pricing structure is designed to encourage that, isn't it? As in, you can buy the phone standalone and outright for £500, or on a one-year contract at £30 a month (total cost £360).

Update: The T-Mobile Blackberry PAYG looks like it'll work for me for everything except international roaming, and for a tenner a month. I've ordered the SIM and am now in the process of trying to phone Orange to give my 30 days' notice. This is easier said than done - I've now been on hold listening to crappy 1980s easy listening on speakerphone for half an hour and counting...

Guessing a few others are doing the same as you :)

Three also had quite a good free SIM offer with inclusive data, calls and messages on PAYG - I ordered one and have it here, was going to swap it in today (from O2 PAYG) - as long as you don't go over the inclusive bundle allowances (whereupon it becomes something silly like 20ppm) it looks quite cheap.

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I had an Orange contract for 3 or 4 years and decided to switch to O2 PAYG as I wasn't using the included minutes and texts. Have been on PAYG for 7 years now and it's great. It's simple, it works, and it's hassle free. I'm surprised more people don't switch to PAYG given the number of horror stories I hear.

Just moved from Orange to GiffGaff PAYG on one phone, which is 02 for tramps.;)

Edited by John Steed

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Update: got through after 46 minutes on hold, at which point the process was relatively painless. Of course I got the usual sales pitch about how the increase is only £2.13, etc. etc., and after a series of polite 'Sorry - not interested'-eds, he processed the notice and gave me my phone number migration code without a fight, stating that my contract would end at the close of the billing period in which I activated it. As the 30 days' notice is theoretically up on 2 Jan and the billing period ends on the 15th of each month, I'm going to do this just before I head off to the US for the new year. I also bought an unlock code from Ebay just now, and installed that on my BB successfully.

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Informed and Comprehensive. [Thanks Mark.] Like you, Ive had an account with for many years, an this is just tip of the iceberg stuff with them. Its a constant battle of swallowing shit.

I hope it is challenged. It wont be though.

Orange is not in the right. The CONSUMER is being screwed at every opportunity. There shoud be stricter fines and guidelines, and far far superior regulatory bodies, with more powers, on the SIDE of the consumer.

Including the Office Fair Trading, Trading Standards, Finaincial Ombundsman, ETC ETC The More complex our society becomes the more Corporatist, undemocratic, and one sided it becomes. Its just become overwhelming. The opposite of Liberty is Slavery.

My general feeling is that I have to spend ten times as much time dealing with various issues,with all sorts of utility, isp, telecomm, etc etc companies as i did ten years ago. And I am so sick of it.

I was on contract with Orange for years since they first started around 1993-4 in Cambridge area (cos their MD lived there)

As soon as you hand over account details they just take the pee. I also got ripped off by cable company overcharging and they carried on charging to my account 4 months after I quit with them and they had cut off the cable line.

Just to mention, the supermarket online/delivery scam!

They entice you to buy things on special offer - so I do. Then they say that they won't honour the offer if it is no longer in local store.

This is open season for multi-million £££ scamming by their managers cos all they have to do is look how much cash and orders are coming in on the offers then cancel the offers to take the full price (normally double)

The customer is then put under pressure on delivery day to pay the extra charges or do without the items!

There needs to be a law which forces them to honour their price offers or at least force them to print the time and day the offer expires (so you don't get caught out)

I argue with them every time they try this on - get my cash back and make them give me a free delivery (£5-6.00) voucher for the hassle they caused. :)

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I do agree that Orange have been pretty grubby with changing there pricing mid contract.

Having said that I'm a pretty happy customer with them.

My current contract got me a HTC Mozart phone (very nice) and plenty of free minutes, texts and broadband data. The clincher for me every year though is that I also get free home broadband included. All for £15/month. Sorry, £15 + 4.4% :rolleyes:

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If this rate hike is a "materially adverse" change then you may have the legal right to terminate your contract with no exit fee - you need to read the Terms and Conditions.

Consumerist has a bunch of threads about this.

FWIW I've found Orange PAYG to be pretty good, the minutes dont expire at the end of the month (which does happen with some providers).

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I've been with three for the last 3 years (just upgraded to the new nokia lumia) even though the customer service is based in India they have always been excellent. My service went down in my house a couple of months ago so they gave me 2 months free and even called back 4 weeks after the problem was fixed to check every thing was fine.

Edited by Mr. Miyagi

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If this rate hike is a "materially adverse" change then you may have the legal right to terminate your contract with no exit fee - you need to read the Terms and Conditions.

I'm guessing that Orange's argument will be that a line rental hike in line with the RPI is not materially adverse, i.e. that the price has not increased in real terms.

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