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Gloomy Britons Blame Labour For Economic Slump, Icm Poll Shows

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[url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/nov/21/gloomy-britons-blame-labour-poll"]http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/nov/21/gloomy-britons-blame-labour-poll[/url]

[quote]Economic confidence is sliding but Labour is still losing out in the blame game, according to a new Guardian/ICM poll.
[b]
Only 42% of voters report confidence in the economy, their own finances and their ability to meet living costs, while 57% say they are not confident. The gap between these two figures produces a net confidence index of -15 points – the second-lowest on record since ICM began asking this regular question in 2001.[/b]

But asked what explains the latest slowdown, 30% of respondents continue to blame debts racked up by the last Labour government, and just 24% blame the coalition's sharp spending cuts.[/quote]

So according to this than 1 in 4 would like to see the govt continue to spend money that it's not got. Clearly they aren't looking at the numbers as this govt is still spending money it hasn't got and seems to keep breaking records for the most borrowed in a month.

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And the coalition haven't even cut anything yet.

My goodness the general public are in for one Hell of a shock in the next few years

Because all mainstream politicians have absolutely now idea how to get out of the situation we are now in

they are hoping that tinkering with the system and praying something turns up will be good enough

well it won't

there are going to to be really radical changes - either managed or forced

either way returning to 'normal' is not an option

:blink:

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[quote name='Game_Over' timestamp='1321905867' post='3185453']
[b]And the coalition haven't even cut anything yet.[/b]

My goodness the general public are in for one Hell of a shock in the next few years

Because all mainstream politicians have absolutely now idea how to get out of the situation we are now in

they are hoping that tinkering with the system and praying something turns up will be good enough

well it won't

there are going to to be really radical changes - either managed or forced

either way returning to 'normal' is not an option

:blink:
[/quote]

+1 (and OP too)

The 'sharp spending cuts' the Grauniad mentions are nothing of the sort. The consequences of racking up debts repayable with interest.

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about time they priced me out of the market, i blame labour for everything....

the the scumbag buy to let empires seemed to start with them.....

i don't know how soldiers went to war with someone like blair or brown in leadership, you've got to have some balls....

i was saving for a deposit whilst labour were ramping the property market and allowing unregulated lending then when i managed to buy a crappy place at peak i lost a fortune selling it because i thought there would be a hpc but instead they used my savings to prop up the property market....

now my savings are been eaten away by inflation because the stupid labour party incurred a huge debt meaning our borrowing costs are just going to go from strength to strength, these scum should never be allowed anywhere near government....

what i hate is there is still some people that think that after all the labour party incompetence the tories should be able to step in fix everything and make it all better, the only solution seems to be to carry on with labour's polices ....

however bad these tories are i know that the labour party would be a trillion times worse....

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[quote name='cheeznbreed' timestamp='1321906722' post='3185465']
+1 (and OP too)

The 'sharp spending cuts' the Grauniad mentions are nothing of the sort. The consequences of racking up debts repayable with interest.
[/quote]

Yep, the real cuts will happen when there is no choice, i.e. the markets force the govts hand. Real cuts will be when the monthly deficit has to be bought down towards zero.

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Cameron will get the benefit of the doubt in the polls until the crap really hits the fan.

Then people will just blame the last man holding the parcel as they always do. Edited by stormymonday_2011

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What amazes me is that Labour (apart from Blair shafting anybody who wanted a change by scrapping clause 4) apparently screwed up all those other countries that they weren't even governing too. Wonder how that happened? I guess the wholesale conversion to Chicago school neo classical economics, Thatchers deregulation and rabid promotion of the "homeowning democracy", repeal of Glass Steagal under Clinton, Greenspan put, 11th September and Bush/Bernanke economic policy response, Paulson weekend with Obama....all of that was Gordon Brown then.

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[quote name='clockslinger' timestamp='1321909878' post='3185513']
What amazes me is that Labour (apart from Blair shafting anybody who wanted a change by scrapping clause 4) apparently screwed up all those other countries that they weren't even governing too. Wonder how that happened? I guess the wholesale conversion to Chicago school neo classical economics, Thatchers deregulation and rabid promotion of the "homeowning democracy", repeal of Glass Steagal under Clinton, Greenspan put, 11th September and Bush/Bernanke economic policy response, Paulson weekend with Obama....all of that was Gordon Brown then.
[/quote]
all of that sh!t and the US debt per head of popn is still dwarfed by the UK , it wouldnt be out of place to say debt in the uk makes the western world look more frugal than the chinese Edited by Tamara De Lempicka

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[quote name='clockslinger' timestamp='1321909878' post='3185513']
What amazes me is that Labour (apart from Blair shafting anybody who wanted a change by scrapping clause 4) apparently screwed up all those other countries that they weren't even governing too. Wonder how that happened? I guess the wholesale conversion to Chicago school neo classical economics, Thatchers deregulation and rabid promotion of the "homeowning democracy", repeal of Glass Steagal under Clinton, Greenspan put, 11th September and Bush/Bernanke economic policy response, Paulson weekend with Obama....all of that was Gordon Brown then.
[/quote]

Brown should take the sh1t simply because tried so hard to take the credit. I don't see much evidence that Cameron/Osborne would have been much better (they pledged to match Brown's spending and Cameron claims to be the heir to Blair) but they weren't in power when TSHTF so their turn to take the sh1t hasn't quite arrived yet.

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[quote name='Tamara De Lempicka' timestamp='1321910089' post='3185517']
all of that sh!t and the US debt per head of popn is still dwarfed by the UK in fact the uk debt makes the western world look more frugal than the chinese
[/quote]

Dont forget the Irish.

Now they were people who REALLY knew how to blow a property bubble.

Even the UK can not get close to their debt per head of population. We are just amateurs. Edited by stormymonday_2011

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[quote name='stormymonday_2011' timestamp='1321910700' post='3185527']
Dont forget the Irish.

Now they were people who REALLY knew how to blow a property bubble.

Even the UK can not get close to their debt per head of population. We were just amateurs.
[/quote]
early days

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[quote name='LiveAndLetBuy' timestamp='1321910576' post='3185526']
Brown should take the sh1t simply because tried so hard to take the credit. I don't see much evidence that Cameron/Osborne would have been much better (they pledged to match Brown's spending and Cameron claims to be the heir to Blair) but they weren't in power when TSHTF so their turn to take the sh1t hasn't quite arrived yet.
[/quote]

This.

Must as I despise Gordo, the Tories would have done little different.

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[quote name='Tamara De Lempicka' timestamp='1321910765' post='3185528']
early days
[/quote]

Agreed.

Cameron's announcements today shows he has learnt f*ck all from the recent past and just wants to go for more of the same.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/housing-market-is-pretty-much-all-we-have-left%2c-admits-cameron-201111214570/

I do notice though a certain lack of enthusiasm from the comments made by the public on some of the mainstream UK media articles about the latest attempt to kick the housing Ponzi back into life. Even the terminally stupid British public are beginning to tire of this crap. Edited by stormymonday_2011

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[quote name='cheeznbreed' timestamp='1321906722' post='3185465']
+1 (and OP too)

The 'sharp spending cuts' the Grauniad mentions are nothing of the sort. The consequences of racking up debts repayable with interest.
[/quote]

Several new record monthy deficits = 'sharp spending cuts' in Guardianista world.

It makes the Daily Mail look like quality analysis.

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[quote name='stormymonday_2011' timestamp='1321911108' post='3185532']
Agreed.

Cameron's announcements today shows he has learnt f*ck all from the recent past and just wants to go for more of the same.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/housing-market-is-pretty-much-all-we-have-left%2c-admits-cameron-201111214570/

I do notice though a certain lack of enthusiasm from the comments made by the public on some of the mainstream UK media articles about the latest attempt to kick the housing Ponzi back into life. Even the terminally stupid British public are beginning to tire of this crap.
[/quote]

Sorry but I think you are looking at this from the wrong angle. Cameron and Merv King want to stay in power for as long as possible. Much of the population don't care if the rest of Britain goes off a cliff so long as they are ok. Therefore to achieve this aim Cameron should please the majority by stoking house prices, assured in the knowledge that they will not desert him for damaging the wider economy. Merv is the same.

If you approach the situation in this fashion each player is behaving utterly logically. They are not playing with the bigger picture in mind. Edited by bmf

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here re the four statutory objectives of the FSA

market confidence – maintaining confidence in the UK financial system;
financial stability - contributing to the protection and enhancement of stability of the UK financial system
consumer protection - securing the appropriate degree of protection for consumers; and
the reduction of financial crime - reducing the extent to which it is possible for a regulated business to be used for a purpose connected with financial crime.

What did we get?

Fuelling HPI by allowing lending ridiculous and unsustainable multiples of income
A bubble which burst taking several banks with it at huge cost to the taxpayer
with sales staff encouraging consumers to lie about earnings, fraud has been at the heart of many banks operations.
Consumers being encouraged to buy to flip pyramid selling ge-rich-quick culture

All of this could have been avoided if the FSA had shown some teeth in their regulated rather than turning a blind eye. Look no furthe than this government appointed regulator when you are looking for blame. Did I say government appointed? Oh, yes. So I did.

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[quote name='scrappycocco' timestamp='1321907898' post='3185481']
about time they priced me out of the market, i blame labour for everything....

the the scumbag buy to let empires seemed to start with them.....

i don't know how soldiers went to war with someone like blair or brown in leadership, you've got to have some balls....

i was saving for a deposit whilst labour were ramping the property market and allowing unregulated lending then when i managed to buy a crappy place at peak i lost a fortune selling it because i thought there would be a hpc but instead they used my savings to prop up the property market....

now my savings are been eaten away by inflation because the stupid labour party incurred a huge debt meaning our borrowing costs are just going to go from strength to strength, these scum should never be allowed anywhere near government....

what i hate is there is still some people that think that after all the labour party incompetence the tories should be able to step in fix everything and make it all better, the only solution seems to be to carry on with labour's polices ....

however bad these tories are i know that the labour party would be a trillion times worse....
[/quote]
Buy to Let empires started with the Tories in 1995. The Blair factor is the promise he made of not changing Tory policy when he was first elected. So this is what we have been left with two similar political models. The free market has led us into debt. Mrs Thatcher said that the finance industry would regulate itself so some good she was.
I am almost in the same position as you and not happy with Labour's wasted years. They have wasted mine. But I think you should kick the right cat if you are into blame.

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[quote name='scrappycocco' timestamp='1321907898' post='3185481']
about time they priced me out of the market, i blame labour for everything....

the the scumbag buy to let empires seemed to start with them.....

i don't know how soldiers went to war with someone like blair or brown in leadership, you've got to have some balls....

i was saving for a deposit whilst labour were ramping the property market and allowing unregulated lending then when i managed to buy a crappy place at peak i lost a fortune selling it because i thought there would be a hpc but instead they used my savings to prop up the property market....

now my savings are been eaten away by inflation because the stupid labour party incurred a huge debt meaning our borrowing costs are just going to go from strength to strength, these scum should never be allowed anywhere near government....

what i hate is there is still some people that think that after all the labour party incompetence the tories should be able to step in fix everything and make it all better, the only solution seems to be to carry on with labour's polices ....

however bad these tories are i know that the labour party would be a trillion times worse....
[/quote]

I'm sorry to hear about that. You're one of the victims of the Labour Parties housing bubble, and there have to be victims, bubbles by their very nature transfer wealth creating winners and losers.

More often than not, whether one is made a winner or a loser out of a bubble is down to luck more than anything else. Events rarely unfold as we foresee when events are manipulated by politicians with their own agendas.

Hearing about someone on the losing side really brings home how nasty it has been for some. Many people who have been screwed by the housing market often hide what has happened to them while the winners boast - so it's easy to forget just how many people have been hurt by this.

While I do believe property is over priced it is actually 'real', that's why the Americans call it 'real estate' I guess. So when we have out of control inflation property is probably still better than cash.

As for Labour, they're not really much worse than the Tories except when it comes to hypocrisy and civil liberties. On economics Labour are the same as the Tories; they just copied Tory policies and even stuck to the Tories budget for 2 years.

The only difference between Labour and the Tories is Labour are anti-civil liberties and are hypocritical by pretending to represent the less well off. If Labour were in power they'd be looking to scrap the 50p tax rate, they would be cutting public services, putting up VAT and tuition fees and doing almost everything the Tories are doing now. The only difference would be that we would all have to have ID cards and public protest free speech would probably have been further restricted.

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[quote name='clockslinger' timestamp='1321909878' post='3185513']
What amazes me is that Labour (apart from Blair shafting anybody who wanted a change by scrapping clause 4) apparently screwed up all those other countries that they weren't even governing too. Wonder how that happened? I guess the....................... repeal of Glass Steagal under Clinton, Greenspan,....................., Paulson weekend with Obama....all of that was Gordon Brown then.
[/quote]


Brown blindly followed his mentor, Greenspan in the super low interest rate enviroment, created by Greenspan, and repeated the same mistake Greenspan made thinking that financial firms would regulate themselves.......

Clinton had to repeal Glass Steagel in 1999, because New York was losing its business to London, where Brown encouraged a 'non dom' bankers tax domicile, along with no regulation whatsoever

If there were such a thing as accountability, maybe all politicians of all parties would take the tougher choices

What was to stop Brown and Labour instigating a policy similiar to Glass Stegall in the UK?

Nothing, apart from political unpopularity. But he COULD have taken the tough choices. To Increase our manufacturing base for instance.

After all, Glass Steagall was first introduced by Rosevelt in the USA, to stop the Rothschilds of the world raping the middle classes.
Which is exactly what has happened.

Brown and co, just held the middle classes down whilst the Bankers raped them.........AKA The Bailouts.........Too Big To Fail .......etc. Edited by Milton

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[quote name='Rain'ard' timestamp='1321913282' post='3185552']
Buy to Let empires started with the Tories in 1995. The Blair factor is the promise he made of not changing Tory policy when he was first elected. So this is what we have been left with two similar political models. The free market has led us into debt. Mrs Thatcher said that the finance industry would regulate itself so some good she was.
I am almost in the same position as you and not happy with Labour's wasted years. They have wasted mine. But I think you should kick the right cat if you are into blame.
[/quote]
Mrs T understood the role of the money supply, which is the fundamental principle of monetarism. To have let it rip as it did (in the form of a credit bubble) after Gordon divorced Prudence would've been the antithesis to all she stood for.

When you see credit rising steeply, you raise interest rates to put the brakes on. And vice versa. That way the system regulates itself, and booms and busts are naturally small. Edited by porca misèria

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[quote name='Milton' timestamp='1321919288' post='3185659']

[b]
If there were such a thing as accountability, maybe all politicians of all parties would take the tougher choices[/b]

[/quote]

I think we might have found the problem.

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