Jobseekers Who Fail To Find Work Will Be Forced To Do Voluntary Work For 30 Hours A Week

[Self Employed Youth]

Are we talking about the battalions of "jobs for the boys (and girls)" administrative staff who are required to oversee anything of this nature? Or the financial industry?

Incidentally, I was looking at my local council's website and someone aspiring to become a park-gardener's assistant needs an NVQ in horticulture before they can be considered for the job.

A friend volunteers with the countryside rangers, and should hopefully get a real job in due course, the permanent staff are starting to get wise to it though, they have noticed they are being replaced, often with unpaid labour, he now gets a fair bit of beef at (voluntary) work.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Unemployed Again Youth

[Self Employed Youth]

I've been saying this for years...there should be no free money.

Moreover, they should be working for free food, clothes, heating and shelter. If they dont like it...get a job.

I volunteer to do your job, I can start straight away, I can work 84 hours a week no problem, am happy with minimum wage, I have no commitments and your company can get rid off the feckless overpaid staff like yourself.

[petetong]

I volunteer to do your job, I can start straight away, I can work 84 hours a week no problem, am happy with minimum wage, I have no commitments and your company can get rid off the feckless overpaid staff like yourself.

I will work for stale bread and water. I will do his job and yours Obviously, he hasn't thought through the ramifications.

[porca misèria]

£100 per week?

and where will they live?

Shared digs. Like most young people and others of limited means in every generation have done.

[tinker]

Cameron is increasingly looking like a spectacular dickhead.

Quote of the day.

Just back from a Voluntary Sector AGM. Talk about the highjacking of the Big Society (we have always had one), and the lunacy of having forced volunteering for political seen to be doing something reasons.

Talk of volunteer induction courses filled with people who do not want to be there.

A point echoed earlier it costs money to volunteer, dealing with volunteers also costs money. The likelihood of the big providers getting involved costing an arm and a leg and messing up something that works is high. Tail wagging the dog.

Less government, yes. Citizens' income free from a costly bureaucracy may be the way to go if there simply aren't enough jobs. Certainly, a much higher tax threshold for the low paid; I think the tax credit system needs to go too as part of this.

[OnionTerror]

Quote of the day.

Just back from a Voluntary Sector AGM. Talk about the highjacking of the Big Society (we have always had one), and the lunacy of having forced volunteering for political seen to be doing something reasons.

Talk of volunteer induction courses filled with people who do not want to be there.

A point echoed earlier it costs money to volunteer, dealing with volunteers also costs money. The likelihood of the big providers getting involved costing an arm and a leg and messing up something that works is high. Tail wagging the dog.

Less government, yes. Citizens' income free from a costly bureaucracy may be the way to go if there simply aren't enough jobs. Certainly, a much higher tax threshold for the low paid; I think the tax credit system needs to go too as part of this.

The problem with the likes of Cameron, is that they come from a privileged background...he has no idea what its like to struggle...

I thought all these plans were already in the Work Programme? I think they've looked at the American unemployment models for "inspiration"...

Edited November 9, 2011 by Dave Beans

[Self Employed Youth]

Quote of the day.

Just back from a Voluntary Sector AGM. Talk about the highjacking of the Big Society (we have always had one), and the lunacy of having forced volunteering for political seen to be doing something reasons.

Talk of volunteer induction courses filled with people who do not want to be there.

A point echoed earlier it costs money to volunteer, dealing with volunteers also costs money. The likelihood of the big providers getting involved costing an arm and a leg and messing up something that works is high. Tail wagging the dog.

Less government, yes. Citizens' income free from a costly bureaucracy may be the way to go if there simply aren't enough jobs. Certainly, a much higher tax threshold for the low paid; I think the tax credit system needs to go too as part of this.

I do an occasional bit of volunteering at the local library and have offered to go in when they strike. The thing that puts me off, is not only do I donate my time, I must spend money to get there (it isn't a short walk and I've already worn one boot through!). They do provide tea and coffee free, but I'll often buy in a cake for the staff.

The current system being planned is akin to corvee labour.

If you really want to get people to volunteer, they need expenses to be taken into account (mainly the cost of travel by 'public' transport). If you really want to get people back to work, and to work when they are financially struggling (and working already), you must give them free travel on public transport.

Looking for work ain't cheap.

Nor is getting to work, or travelling for interviews.

If the government wants a big society, we need free travel for all, and fee exemptions for volunteer related expenses (CRB checks etc.)

But to be honest Tinker, I'm sure you know that. It doesn't hurt to say it again for everyone else though

[OnionTerror]

I do an occasional bit of volunteering at the local library and have offered to go in when they strike. The thing that puts me off, is not only do I donate my time, I must spend money to get there (it isn't a short walk and I've already worn one boot through!). They do provide tea and coffee free, but I'll often buy in a cake for the staff.

The current system being planned is akin to corvee labour.

If you really want to get people to volunteer, they need expenses to be taken into account (mainly the cost of travel by 'public' transport). If you really want to get people back to work, and to work when they are financially struggling (and working already), you must give them free travel on public transport.

Looking for work ain't cheap.

Nor is getting to work, or travelling for interviews.

If the government wants a big society, we need free travel for all, and fee exemptions for volunteer related expenses (CRB checks etc.)

But to be honest Tinker, I'm sure you know that. It doesn't hurt to say it again for everyone else though

Will they pay for all those Taxi's for those placements in the sticks? I heard of people on the New deal walking an hour and half each way, just to catch a bus to their ND placement.

[@contradevian]

I volunteer to do your job, I can start straight away, I can work 84 hours a week no problem, am happy with minimum wage, I have no commitments and your company can get rid off the feckless overpaid staff like yourself.

Provided in your new job you don't spend all day on HPC, complaining about doley scroungers!

[Self Employed Youth]

Provided in your new job you don't spend all day on HPC, complaining about doley scroungers!

I've a few friends who get a lot more than me when I've landed full time work, that's a bit of a downer to be honest. I'm not one to begrudge extra help in the form of NHS, adapted housing, higher total income for larger households (that's actually less on a per person basis, with/without being adjusted for housing).

However, I do get a bit wound up about some people on disability who can get a free car, free public travel, full hb, ctb, is, dla both care and mobility component, half priced cinema, free prescriptions for ad hoc illness etc. as when your on minimum wage without working tax credits, you come out with far less, before taking into account the nhs etc., same vs pension credit (even though the person may have never worked and has perhaps retired 12 years earlier than your expected to).

I'd perhaps set min wage (for full time work) at the same level as pension credit and benefits for the disabled, whilst having a lower basic income for the able bodied of working age and children. Pension credit would become state pension (and treat as a basic income), and private pensions could be paid in addition. The pensioner would have a choice to work or retire. I'd allow more children the option to work.

[Traktion]

So because of protectionism and regulation is forcing people off the bottom of the job market, their solution is slavery? Completely crazy.

[right_freds_dead]

30 hours is WAY too much. it should be limited to 1 full day of quality work. or its a slave labor force in effect.

[The Eagle]

I've been saying this for years...there should be no free money.

Moreover, they should be working for free food, clothes, heating and shelter. If they dont like it...get a job.

I'm convinced the opposite of what you say would work far better:

we should all get free money (a citizen's income) and then those that want to earn more can work.

There is not enough work for everybody by far, and there will be less and less work available so a citizen's income (really a dividend for increased automation) is the only viable option, unless you prefer having to hire bodyguards to venture on the streets.

[Self Employed Youth]

Is a citizen's income not a just repayment method, for the private ownership and therefore restricted use of land for the common man.

Idle land and allotment waiting lists, over consumption of food and starvation?

[billybong]

Excellent news just in- the job they will be volunteering to do will be yours. Of course, as a now unemployed person you will need to become a volunteer yourself- and- as you clearly have experience in the role- it makes sense for you to volunteer to do your previous job for free.

During and after the 80s/90s recession a lot of the "employers" (what a joke that word is yeah right employers ) blatantly demanded that existing employees trained up other people to do the trainers jobs.

"Employers" - what a joke word.

Edited November 10, 2011 by billybong

[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

Plenty of bins to empty, schools to clean, council offices to run.

[OnionTerror]

Plenty of bins to empty, schools to clean, council offices to run.

...and round we go again...

[porca misèria]

The problem with the likes of Cameron, is that they come from a privileged background...he has no idea what its like to struggle...

The problem with everyone born in the UK in our lifetimes, is that they come from a privileged background...they have no idea what its like to struggle...

[DTMark]

When I read the title of the thread I was chuckling at the word "forced".

The idea of this is surely thus:

People who haven't worked for x period of time - whatever that is determined to be - and are being housed and fed by the rest of society have a choice:

1. Get a job, start a business, be self-sufficient. Basically, earn their own keep and have some degree of self-determination.

Or:

2. Do work for the State in exchange for Other People's Money (benefits are the wages)

Or:

3. Do nothing, and starve.

So given the choice - there is nothing forced about it - I reckon most would go for option 1 quite voluntarily.

All it does is remove the option which presently exists, that being:

4. Do nothing in exchange for Other People's Money

Edited November 10, 2011 by DTMark

[Debbie568]

When I read the title of the thread I was chuckling at the word "forced".

The idea of this is surely thus:

People who haven't worked for x period of time - whatever that is determined to be - and are being housed and fed by the rest of society have a choice:

1. Get a job, start a business, be self-sufficient. Basically, earn their own keep and have some degree of self-determination.

Or:

2. Do work for the State in exchange for Other People's Money (benefits are the wages)

Or:

3. Do nothing, and starve.

So given the choice - there is nothing forced about it - I reckon most would go for option 1 quite voluntarily.

All it does is remove the option which presently exists, that being:

4. Do nothing in exchange for Other People's Money

You might not be able to get a job because there aren't many, the competition is fierce, and if you're not under 30 and look like a gym bunny you're probably wasting your time applying for one. You could start a business, but watch our for the HMRC, because if they think your revenue is too low to sustain you, they might just cancel your self employment registration and with it all the lovely jubbly benefits that enable you to be able to afford to start a business. You could be self sufficient, if only you could actually afford to rent a house with a bit of land. Or could wait 5 years to get an allotment. There seems to be something missing in option 1 - the element of choice. Perhaps those who live in flats could start growing alfalfa seeds on their windowsills.

Work for the State? Yes, that's a possibility, if only they would start doing the work that the nation needs, instead of having everyone fluffing around in offices not actually producing anything. What kind of work, besides picking up litter, did you have in mind? Is it okay if the person already in the job and getting paid real wages for it gets laid off in the process? After all, according to the government, the public sector is far too big and needs to lose a few hundred thousand jobs.

Do nothing, and starve. Then we'd get a huge explosion in theft. We haven't got enough prisons to house the potential criminals for this option, so that will have to be ditched.

Do nothing in exchange for other people's money. In an economy where there aren't enough jobs to go around, where running a micro business which is undercapitalised is unlikely to sustain you, and where volunteering the way the current governemnt advocate is likely to lose other people their jobs, maybe that's the only viable option.

[SarahBell]

You might not be able to get a job because there aren't many,

So why do immigrants pour here in their thousands?

Perhaps we need an (eu-illegal) employ a UK person not a non-Uk person campaign.

[Gone baby gone]

You might not be able to get a job because there aren't many, the competition is fierce, and if you're not under 30 and look like a gym bunny you're probably wasting your time applying for one. You could start a business, but watch our for the HMRC, because if they think your revenue is too low to sustain you, they might just cancel your self employment registration and with it all the lovely jubbly benefits that enable you to be able to afford to start a business. You could be self sufficient, if only you could actually afford to rent a house with a bit of land. Or could wait 5 years to get an allotment. There seems to be something missing in option 1 - the element of choice. Perhaps those who live in flats could start growing alfalfa seeds on their windowsills.

HOW DO MORE PEOPLE NOT GET THIS!!!!!

There are not enough jobs to go around, sure there are probably a handful of jobs that nobody is currently paid for doing (repainting community centres, etc where there is no money to cover the labour), but ]otherwise this scheme will likely end up taking away jobs that are paid, and replacing them with "volunteers" earning state benefits.

This system doesn't work in the USA, and we are going to adopt it for PR reasons alone.

[Gone baby gone]

So why do immigrants pour here in their thousands?

Because they will work for lower wages / in worse conditions. Many have no intention of staying in the UK long-term so care little about a wage that will allow them to buy a house, live in a half-decent area or start a family.

As much as this half thought out idea might appeal to ideas of "social justice", this is going to help to make things worse and not better.

Why not create a new program to build social housing or refurbish old schools and pay people a wage?

Is the government so devoid of ideas they can't think of this stuff, or are they deliberately trying to foster an underclass?

[SarahBell]

HOW DO MORE PEOPLE NOT GET THIS!!!!!

There are not enough jobs to go around, sure there are probably a handful of jobs that nobody is currently paid for doing (repainting community centres, etc where there is no money to cover the labour), but ]otherwise this scheme will likely end up taking away jobs that are paid, and replacing them with "volunteers" earning state benefits.

This system doesn't work in the USA, and we are going to adopt it for PR reasons alone.

There are hundreds of things that could be done if there was money available.

We don't have the money to do things - so we could use dolites to do the work.

It all needs supervising which will cost £££ - it's not like trusted volunteers who want to be there. It is more like chain gangs.

BUT just the fact someone has to get up and get out and do something will make the UK a better place.

There are too many lazy arsed bastards sitting around on their twatting bums doing nothing and getting paid. If this sort of person sees they can go and find an easier job then they might just do that.

[ShedDweller]

Because they are prepared to do jobs that are "Below" the level that alot of UK people feel they are entitled to ..

I occasionally have to get work gangs together for a single day of work .. I pick these guys up in a town centre at 5.30am and they work until 6.30 and I drop them back at 7pm I pay them £200 for the day ..

I've employed one British person and it was an experience I would only repeat for the sake of impartiality. He was late (called me on my mobile at 6am to ask me why I had not waited) finally got to work at about 7.50 ... had not brought any food, spent most of the time moaning about the poles (who just organized themselves to do the work as well as possible). Then made a massive fuss when I paid him £160 instead of £200..

So why do immigrants pour here in their thousands?

Perhaps we need an (eu-illegal) employ a UK person not a non-Uk person campaign.