inflating

Hmos Houses In Multiple Occupation - Room Keys Forbidden?

24 posts in this topic

Is this now law? That sharers in a HMO cannot have room keys due to it being against the fire regs?

True?

So how do sharers maintain their security while asleep, and keep their belongings safe from borrowers or thieves when they're out their room?

Was astounded to hear this, puts me right off getting a share in future if now law.

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Low level wage slaves are not supposed to have privacy or valuable property, be glad that at least you are allowed a room for yourself... :ph34r:

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[quote name='awake_eagle' timestamp='1318977583' post='3152543']
Low level wage slaves are not supposed to have privacy or valuable property, be glad that at least you are allowed a room for yourself... :ph34r:
[/quote]

So it's true then?

Yours are many a true word spoken in jest

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It'a rubbish. Everybody has their own room with a lock on it. My company rents these out, there is no way we would deny anybody the right to lock their door.

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[quote name='Frank Hovis' timestamp='1318979146' post='3152568']
It'a rubbish. Everybody has their own room with a lock on it. My company rents these out, there is no way we would deny anybody the right to lock their door.
[/quote]

The OP was about fire regulations not the landlord's willingness to give out keys.

Maybe you are unknowingly in breach of fire regulations and therefore put your building insurance cover at risk?

[quote]So it's true then?[/quote]

I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Edited by awake_eagle

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[quote name='awake_eagle' timestamp='1318981955' post='3152595']
The OP was [color="#8B0000"][b]BS purporting to be[/b][/color] about fire regulations not the landlord's willingness to give out keys.
[/quote]
[corrected for you]

Just try and take room keys away from hotel guests, or students in a hall of residence! Looks to me like a 'landlord' who wants the profit of a HMO without the responsibilities. ICBW but I have an idea those responsibilities include fire regulations specific to HMOs, over and above those for regular rentals or owner-occupiers.

Hundred to one the landlord is a petty crook trying to duck out of his responsibilities. Edited by porca misèria

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[quote name='inflating' timestamp='1318977102' post='3152537']
Is this now law? That sharers in a HMO cannot have room keys due to it being against the fire regs?

True?

So how do sharers maintain their security while asleep, and keep their belongings safe from borrowers or thieves when they're out their room?

Was astounded to hear this, puts me right off getting a share in future if now law.
[/quote]

It's nonsense, the housing act 2004 makes provisions for HMO to be licensed with the local authority part of which is having adequate fire protection for tenants which would include, self closing fire doors, a functioning fire alarm, smoke detectors, fire blankets etc.

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[quote name='awake_eagle' timestamp='1318981955' post='3152595']
The OP was about fire regulations not the landlord's willingness to give out keys.

[b]Maybe you are unknowingly in breach of fire regulations and therefore put your building insurance cover at risk?
[/b]


I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.
[/quote]

I assure you we're shit hot on everything to do with H&S, it's rubbish and the LL is just throwing it in as an excuse so he can wander in and go through people's possessions.

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[quote name='Frank Hovis' timestamp='1318979146' post='3152568']
It'a rubbish. Everybody has their own room with a lock on it. My company rents these out, there is no way we would deny anybody the right to lock their door.
[/quote]


[quote name='porca misèria' timestamp='1318987823' post='3152612']
[corrected for you]

Just try and take room keys away from hotel guests, or students in a hall of residence! Looks to me like a 'landlord' who wants the profit of a HMO without the responsibilities. ICBW but I have an idea those responsibilities include fire regulations specific to HMOs, over and above those for regular rentals or owner-occupiers.

Hundred to one the landlord is a petty crook trying to duck out of his responsibilities.
[/quote]


[quote name='Mr. Miyagi' timestamp='1319005389' post='3152642']
It's nonsense, the housing act 2004 makes provisions for HMO to be licensed with the local authority part of which is having adequate fire protection for tenants which would include, self closing fire doors, a functioning fire alarm, smoke detectors, fire blankets etc.
[/quote]

Thanks for the replies all.

I thought it might be BS.

I wonder what the landlord there is up to :angry: (I say landlord, it's a woman, in a posh area, and I think she used to be on TV because have seen her before somewhere - well, looks as if it might have been Crimewatch)

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[quote name='inflating' timestamp='1319006879' post='3152657']
Thanks for the replies all.

I thought it might be BS.

I wonder what the landlord there is up to :angry: (I say landlord, it's a woman, in a posh area, and I think she used to be on TV because have seen her before somewhere - well, looks as if it might have been Crimewatch)
[/quote]

The only caveat I know of ( having been involved in student letting for years, including via Uni Accommodation Offices) is that that the door lock must be of the Yale type - i.e. openable from the inside without a key.
Where security & Fire regs do collide is on Front doors - Fire regs require them to be openable without a key from the inside; insurance cos want 5-lever mortise locks.

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The only reason I can think that they wouldn't want to give you keys is if they were to later claim you were a lodger in order to reduce your rights. If you have the ability to lock the door to your room you become a tenant and have many more rights than a lodger who has no exclusive access to any part of the property.

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[quote name='cartimandua51' timestamp='1319011873' post='3152759']
The only caveat I know of ( having been involved in student letting for years, including via Uni Accommodation Offices) is that that the door lock must be of the Yale type - i.e. openable from the inside without a key.
Where security & Fire regs do collide is on Front doors - Fire regs require them to be openable without a key from the inside; insurance cos want 5-lever mortise locks.
[/quote]

You mean a Yale on each sharers room? No she has a normal lock on each room, 2 lever or 1 lever.

[quote name='My Name Is ??' timestamp='1319011981' post='3152763']
The only reason I can think that they wouldn't want to give you keys is if they were to later claim you were a lodger in order to reduce your rights. If you have the ability to lock the door to your room you become a tenant and have many more rights than a lodger who has no exclusive access to any part of the property.
[/quote]

Aha, might be [i]bingo![/i] there because when I asked it turns out not to be an AST but a sharer agreement of some sort "drawn up by my solicitor" she said

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[quote name='My Name Is ??' timestamp='1319016258' post='3152902']
I'd be quietly looking for another place! Not only do you not have any rights but if there are multiple lodgers you are at risk of problems with security/privacy.
[/quote]

I'm not in there, yet. I need somewhere short term as back abroad soon. I told her the keys thing is news to me and not acceptable really, so searching elsewhere but will check I get a key for any I view

Thanks for your advice!

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[quote name='Frank Hovis' timestamp='1319005737' post='3152648']
I assure you we're shit hot on everything to do with H&S, it's rubbish and the LL is just throwing it in as an excuse so he can wander in and go through people's possessions.
[/quote]

I think he is throwing it in as an excuse to say it isn't an HMO.

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IIRC, fire regs say that it needs to be possible to open the doors from the inside without a key, even when locked, meaning it needs to be one of those thumb-turn locks or something similar.

If the locks they happen to have installed are different (i.e. a 'normal' lock), they probably can't give you keys for your rooms due to fire regs because their locks are non-compliant.. although the underlying reason is that they can't be bothered to install the correct type of lock rather than locks being against fire regs on principle.

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The lack of AST would indicate that the LL isn't properly registered as a HMO and is trying to get around this by keeping his 'tenants' as lodgers.

I live in HMO properly done - all rooms have locks which can be unlocked from the inside. Hardwired fire alarms. Fire extinguishers and blankets. Even the PAT testing is done. The agreement between myself and the LL is an AST and my deposit is in the DPS.

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Spoke to another agent today, they said to me if it's a houseshare then the landlord is covering their ass with this keys business, so as to avoid having to register it as a HMO which hasto have fire doors etc

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[quote name='My Name Is ??' timestamp='1319056112' post='3153637']
The lack of AST would indicate that the LL isn't properly registered as a[b] HMO and is trying to get around this by keeping his 'tenants' as lodgers.[/b]

I live in HMO properly done - all rooms have locks which can be unlocked from the inside. Hardwired fire alarms. Fire extinguishers and blankets. Even the PAT testing is done. The agreement between myself and the LL is an AST and my deposit is in the DPS.
[/quote]

Only if he's dim / ill advised / hasn't read the legislation. Lodgers still count as households unless they are family, though I believe you can have two of them. Would have to dig around for the exact link, but the legislators did try very hard to make difficult to wriggle out of the HMO definition.

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[quote name='Frank Hovis' timestamp='1318979146' post='3152568']
It'a rubbish. Everybody has their own room with a lock on it. My company rents these out, there is no way we would deny anybody the right to lock their door.
[/quote]

Hi my name is Mike and I’m in need of help with my dissertation. I am looking for landlord volunteers to fill out a simple questionnaire which will take no more than 5 minutes. I’m doing my dissertation on mandatory licencing for HMOs and am trying to get a landlords point of view. The questionnaire is 100% anonymous.
Please click on the following link and it will take you straight to it: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/97Y3SMC
Your time will be much appreciated

Kind Regards
Mike

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Hi my name is Mike and I’m in need of help with my dissertation. I am looking for landlord volunteers to fill out a simple questionnaire which will take no more than 5 minutes. I’m doing my dissertation on mandatory licencing for HMOs and am trying to get a landlords point of view. The questionnaire is 100% anonymous.
Please click on the following link and it will take you straight to it: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/97Y3SMC
Your time will be much appreciated

Kind Regards
Mike

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[quote name='Mfee' timestamp='1332245237' post='3290526']
Hi my name is Mike and I’m in need of help with my dissertation. I am looking for landlord volunteers to fill out a simple questionnaire which will take no more than 5 minutes. I’m doing my dissertation on mandatory licencing for HMOs and am trying to get a landlords point of view. The questionnaire is 100% anonymous.
Please click on the following link and it will take you straight to it: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/97Y3SMC
Your time will be much appreciated

Kind Regards
Mike
[/quote]

try landlordzone

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[quote name='inflating' timestamp='1318977102' post='3152537']
Is this now law? That sharers in a HMO cannot have room keys due to it being against the fire regs?

True?
[/quote]
No. This is false.

The law is that the doors (to the rooms) and to the front door, must have a means of "emergency egress". In other words, they should not be able to stop someone getting out in an emergency. The most practical way of doing this is to install a lock which can be turned from the inside without a key.

Insurance grade locks (BS 3621 as are recommended for front doors) are specifically required to block egress (so cannot be opened from the inside without a key). The idea being is that if you can stop a thief from getting out through a door, they'll think twice before trying to hump stuff out of a window.

The problem here is likely that the landlord has installed the wrong type of locks (probably fitting insurance approved locks to the individual room doors), and does not want to change them for the correct type.

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[quote name='Mfee' timestamp='1332245237' post='3290526']
Hi my name is Mike and I’m in need of help with my dissertation. I am looking for landlord volunteers to fill out a simple questionnaire which will take no more than 5 minutes. I’m doing my dissertation on mandatory licencing for HMOs and am trying to get a landlords point of view. The questionnaire is 100% anonymous.
Please click on the following link and it will take you straight to it: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/97Y3SMC
Your time will be much appreciated

Kind Regards
Mike
[/quote]

Had a quick look Mike but not really applicable as I'm with a registered provider running HMOs as part of SP contracts so they are already regulated to the nth degree, didn't want to skew your stats. Will populate if you want but it seems to be aimed at private landlords.

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