Ash4781

Energy Price Rises

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Does anyone know how fast gas and electricity prices have been rising? Going through newspaper articles seems to give around 20% a year for the past 5 years!

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[quote name='Ash4781' timestamp='1311775201' post='3067116']
Does anyone know how fast gas and electricity prices have been rising? Going through newspaper articles seems to give around 20% a year for the past 5 years!
[/quote]


Dont know the figure but it does seem like quite a lot, think they did come down at some point although this was not as well publicized as the rises

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Prices really started to take off in 2004. RPI measurements of electricity and gas:

Jan 1987 – Jan 2004: Electricity +32.1% Gas +31.1%

Jan 2004 – Jun 2011: Electricity +85.7% Gas +129.3%

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[quote name='FreeTrader' timestamp='1311778118' post='3067162']
Prices really started to take off in 2004. RPI measurements of electricity and gas:

Jan 1987 – Jan 2004: Electricity +32.1% Gas +31.1%

Jan 2004 – Jun 2011: Electricity +85.7% Gas +129.3%
[/quote]

The success of privatisation.

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[quote name='Superted187' timestamp='1311783586' post='3067237']
Gas and Oil are different things dude
[/quote]

Dude, they make gas out of oil.

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[quote name='mightytharg' timestamp='1311785106' post='3067257']
Dude, they make gas out of oil.
[/quote]
That's news to me

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[quote name='mightytharg' timestamp='1311785106' post='3067257']
Dude, they make gas out of oil.
[/quote]


[quote name='GloomMonger' timestamp='1311786553' post='3067276']
That's news to me
[/quote]

And the other way round! [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_to_liquids"]Gas to Liquids[/url].

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[quote name='GloomMonger' timestamp='1311786553' post='3067276']
That's news to me
[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline

:lol:

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The price of oil affects the price of gas because in Europe the two are linked.

BTW, have a look at this:
"Since the start of large scale extraction of natural gas from beneath the North Sea in the early 1970s, the gas price in the UK has been related to the cost of extracting gas from thousands of feet below the sea-bed and delivering it to homes in the UK. In the early days, because the body responsible for buying all gas from North Sea and selling it to customers was a government-owned monopoly (the Gas Council), the gas price was set centrally and, although cost reflective, could be used as a tool of social policy.

The creation of competition in the 1990s revealed that the wholesale market was oversupplied and the wholesale gas price collapsed. Domestic customers saw the benefit of this low wholesale gas price when gas supply was open to full competition in the latter half of the 1990s, and households saw their gas price fall steadily until 2000.

The completion of the gas pipeline between England and continental Europe (which has a higher gas price) saw large quantities of gas flow out from the UK to the continent. This had the effect of reducing the North Sea of gas more quickly and bringing the UK gas price into line with that of continental Europe. With UK gas reserves now rapidly depleting, the UK will soon be importing the majority of the gas we need, and as a result our gas price will be determined by the European gas price. The European gas price is, in turn, linked to the price of oil – because most wholesale gas imports to Europe have their gas price indexed to the global price of oil."

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People's memories are short.

I recently found some old electricity and gas bills from the early-mid 80s. Up until about 3 years ago, energy was more expensive in the 80s (not inflation corrected) than in the 2000s.

Privatisation of the North Sea gas/oil was spectacularly successful, in that production was so aggressive that prices collapsed to previously inconceivably low levels. It was one of the reasons why new nuclear power and new hydro electricity (a major hydro plant was planned for exmoor) was abandoned in the UK in the 90s. Gas was virtually free, and no other fuel could compete.

Now that the North Sea is depleting, we are having to pay much higher prices to extract what's left, or import it via thousands of miles of pipe through politically and environmentally unstable places. It's been obvious since about 2004, that the era of cheap energy in the UK was over, and that prices were going to rise dramatically. In 2004, I predicted an average of 20-30% p.a. price rises for gas thereafter. I was laughed at by my friends and colleagues and even at meeting of the residents association for the block of flats where I lived (the 'communal areas' electricity bill was about £25k per year, and I warned at the meeting that they urgently needed to address electrical energy efficiency - they did see the light in the end, and began addressing the number of lights left on, installing timers and motion detectors, etc. after bills started to jump). In actuality, I was wrong, in that I had overestimated the price rises - but not by much.

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Some interesting replies. I have been looking at the capped energy tariffs and they are priced at around a 30% premium.

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[quote name='Ash4781' timestamp='1311791934' post='3067328']
Some interesting replies. I have been looking at the capped energy tariffs and they are priced at around a 30% premium.
[/quote]

I have just capped mine for 3 years and it works out at a fiver per month more than I was paying. My old company have just announced an increase in both gas and leccy, so my timing was good for once. Edited by pie-eater

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[quote name='Ash4781' timestamp='1311791934' post='3067328']
Some interesting replies. I have been looking at the capped energy tariffs and they are priced at around a 30% premium.
[/quote]


...plus an exit penalty for each fuel.....the on-line duel fuel, pay by dd, no posted bills are the best buys at the moment...not a fixed price, I did look into it about three months ago as was considering a fixed/capped, but instead I am looking to save money by trying to cut down and being more energy efficient this winter...30% saving in fuel would be nice....shame the first units you use are the most expensive....I think ofgem should look at why the price of all units can't be the same with no standing charges, it would encourage more to try to save wasting fuel unnecessary ...the energy companies will say it is more to pay for supplying the fuel to the property, but that is just an excuse they could if they wanted change this, pressure should be put on them to do so imo. ;) Edited by winkie

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Chickens coming home to roost. I expect these prices have a long way to go.

The Blair Feelgood was all about low prices to consumers regardless of everything else, including essential investment. Building up a huge deficit (sound familiar?) If we'd had haalfway-adequate investment ten years ago we'd be in a far better position now. But then we'd have had higher consumer prices on The Liar's watch, and more of that most monstrously corrupt measure "fuel poverty".

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[quote name='winkie' timestamp='1311792833' post='3067343']
...plus an exit penalty for each fuel.....the on-line duel fuel, pay by dd, no posted bills are the best buys at the moment...not a fixed price, I did look into it about three months ago as was considering a fixed/capped, but instead I am looking to save money by trying to cut down and being more energy efficient this winter...30% saving in fuel would be nice....shame the first units you use are the most expensive....I think ofgem should look at why the price of all units can't be the same with no standing charges, it would encourage more to try to save wasting fuel unnecessary ...the energy companies will say it is more to pay for supplying the fuel to the property, but that is just an excuse they could if they wanted change this, pressure should be put on them to do so imo. ;)
[/quote]

Have a look at Ebico, no confusing tariffs just simple pricing for what you consume.

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Aren't standing charges just a bit of a smokescreen? I.e if you have no standing charge then first units are more expensive to make up the difference. Alternatively if you have a standing charge then all units are just a bit cheaper to offset?

I'm thinking of going with Ovo Energy - just 2 tariffs. EDF is cheaper but i read their customer service is horrendous. I'm smart enough (no genius) but trying to work out what I pay/what I could save/who I should switch to confuses the hell out of me. Maybe that's the point. Edited by Mr 0.01%

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[quote name='tomposh101' timestamp='1311805312' post='3067548']
Have a look at Ebico, no confusing tariffs just simple pricing for what you consume.
[/quote]


Every different option is worth a look, the comparison sites have their place but it is also worthwhile doing your own investigations independently....anyway the comparison sites do not show everything that is available on the market but some of their information is useful.....moving to a different supplier has its own inconveniences, and price is not always a good enough reason to change....the key is to not to get into a costly tie in situation, know your typical annual therm consumption, know how to read the meter and with gas know what that meter reading means in pounds and pence, a complicated maths lesson in itself...calculator a necessity. ;) Edited by winkie

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[quote name='porca misèria' timestamp='1311801892' post='3067479']
Chickens coming home to roost. I expect these prices have a long way to go.

The Blair Feelgood was all about low prices to consumers regardless of everything else, including essential investment. Building up a huge deficit (sound familiar?) If we'd had haalfway-adequate investment ten years ago we'd be in a far better position now. But then we'd have had higher consumer prices on The Liar's watch, and more of that most monstrously corrupt measure "fuel poverty".
[/quote]


The old chestnut is 'we have to invest in the energy for the future' what may I ask have they been doing in the past....when Mrs T sold the energy companies to the citizens of this country they was supposed to be shared amongst the people of this country...but no we were forced to sell out to large foreign corporates and centrica who snapped up the shares cheaply as soon as they got the opportunity.....let the shareholders take some of the pain not always the consumer. ;)

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One of the main planks of both the Labour party platform and the Tory party platform was to force a reduction in energy consumption in the United Kingdom. They said the most effective way to do that is to dramatically increase the price of that energy.

The vast majority of Brits strongly support the parties on their quest to cut greenhouse gas emissions and move to a more sustainable model. The only thing is they thought those increasing prices would force [i]someone else[/i] to cut back.

Its like car travel. Most Brits state the politically correct line that its terrible how much [i]other people[/i] drive around. And that policies should be put in place to discourage car travel. What they never considered is the person those policies might hit one day would be themselves. And according to that thread I posted a few days ago, a shocking 1.3 million less cars are on the road this year than last year.

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[quote name='aa3' timestamp='1311838583' post='3067713']
One of the main planks of both the Labour party platform and the Tory party platform was to force a reduction in energy consumption in the United Kingdom. They said the most effective way to do that is to dramatically increase the price of that energy.

The vast majority of Brits strongly support the parties on their quest to cut greenhouse gas emissions and move to a more sustainable model. The only thing is they thought those increasing prices would force [i]someone else[/i] to cut back.

Its like car travel. Most Brits state the politically correct line that its terrible how much [i]other people[/i] drive around. And that policies should be put in place to discourage car travel. What they never considered is the person those policies might hit one day would be themselves. And according to that thread I posted a few days ago, a shocking 1.3 million less cars are on the road this year than last year.
[/quote]

Agreed. We're all green until it actually effects us.

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[quote name='aa3' timestamp='1311838583' post='3067713']
One of the main planks of both the Labour party platform and the Tory party platform was to force a reduction in energy consumption in the United Kingdom. They said the most effective way to do that is to dramatically increase the price of that energy.

The vast majority of Brits strongly support the parties on their quest to cut greenhouse gas emissions and move to a more sustainable model. The only thing is they thought those increasing prices would force [i]someone else[/i] to cut back.

Its like car travel. Most Brits state the politically correct line that its terrible how much [i]other people[/i] drive around. And that policies should be put in place to discourage car travel. What they never considered is the person those policies might hit one day would be themselves. And according to that thread I posted a few days ago, a shocking 1.3 million less cars are on the road this year than last year.
[/quote]



The energy companies do not want you to use less fuel, that way they would make less profit....they are playing lip service with the energy savings stance...it's all politics. ;)

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[quote name='Superted187' timestamp='1311783586' post='3067237']
Gas and Oil are different things dude
[/quote]

I hope you are just josting here.

The oil price affects absolutely everything. With regards to energy, it will affect the coal price, the wind power price (what a joke energy), the solar energy price etc etc. It affects water price in some countries too, but that's nicely swept under the carpet for now.

If you can't see that then... well... er, not much to say to that then. :unsure:

Edit: p.s. guess where our future gas supply is coming from? Clue: Our realpolitik efforts and war efforts point to this. Edited by Cash with Nowhere to Go

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[quote name='aa3' timestamp='1311838583' post='3067713']
One of the main planks of both the Labour party platform and the Tory party platform was to force a reduction in energy consumption in the United Kingdom. They said the most effective way to do that is to dramatically increase the price of that energy.

The vast majority of Brits strongly support the parties on their quest to cut greenhouse gas emissions and move to a more sustainable model. The only thing is they thought those increasing prices would force [i]someone else[/i] to cut back. [/quote]

To me, the whole notion that you *can* cut back to a genuinely sustainable model (without massive reductions in livings standards and/or genocide) seems very far fetched. Mind you, the very concept of progress as a society seems a hard sell to every one nowadays.

The best way to fix both energy and environmental problems is to quite deliberately create a large oversupply of zero-carbon electricity (Yes, that means nuclear and wind for the UK) as policy - not a particularly expensive policy either if funded by government debt. Once that is done, market forces will eliminate stationary fossil fuel use (i.e heating and industrial) and synthetic transport fuels will become practicable.

However, this would require determined government intervention over a couple of decades, whereas blaming energy companies for jacking prices through the roof is politically easy, if completely futile.

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