Lepista

Gold strategy in the current economy

12,223 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, jiltedjen said:

Just having a think....

I think your theory reveals we don't know what we don't know. I could get used to that..._

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On ‎24‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 0:52 PM, p.p. said:

I think it will break the general trend upwards since 2012.... downwards. For the sake of clarity, I think it will be a lot nearer 90 than 100 come the end of the year

dollar index 96 and change at present early june. nearly half way there.....

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Hoard of Roman coins found at former burial site in Gelderland

A hoard of coins dating from the final days of the Roman Empire has been found in an orchard in Gelderland.

Experts believe the fortune was buried by a Frankish military leader in the second half of the fifth century, when the area was part of the Western Roman Empire, which collapsed in 476AD. Some of the 41 gold pieces unearthed in Lienden, near Veenendaal, bear the image of Majorian, one of the empire’s last rulers, who reigned for four years from 457. ‘On that basis we think this treasure was buried in around 460,’ said Nico Roymans, professor of archaeology at the Vrije Universiteit in Amsterdam.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/06/hoard-of-roman-coins-found-at-former-burial-site-in-gelderland/

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On 6/6/2017 at 8:49 PM, jiltedjen said:

Just having a think....

..

however, the powers that be, know full well that they can actually change the price of gold via price suppression/paper contracts, which they cant do with Bitcoin due to the open ledger. 
 

The open ledger eh.

So how many people regularly view that?

How many people view a version that is up to date? To the millisecond?

Like, zero.

So your open ledger is no more open than, say, the land registry. Are prices of houses controlled by the absolute number of houses on the registry? What about the register of gilts held at the DMO? Does the price of gov bonds depend on that?

What about supply and demand then? Can the open ledger determine that? Does the open ledger show market depth at the bitcoin exchanges?

And is there no such thing as 'paper' bitcoin? What then are bitcoin futures? Will the price of these never influence the underlying?

And what about rival crypto currencies?

What about rumours of crypto cracking? I reckon less than 1 in 1000 people really know enough about how public key encryption works to face-down a tech-expert claiming he/she has broken it. Throw in bitcoin mechanics like timing of transactions etc and you could easily scare most of the population.

Gold is something you can hold without dispute (even property can be stolen by fiddling the land registry etc). Bitcoin has reality on its side, true. But most of us believe some mumbo-jumbo and are easily fooled in to acting against the facts out of fear. Fear of the unknown is certainly a thing, and for most, what really constitutes bitcoin will always be an unknown.

Edited by Sledgehead
extra thought

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21 hours ago, Errol said:

billionaires-precious-metals.jpg

 

Last time around they confiscated.  A lot of the phy has the Queens head on it; I'm sure that not by accident and like her other coinage could at some point be claimed as hers (IMHO).

I'd bet most holders who are rich have an ETF or something paper they can trade quickly when needed.  Perhaps even holding miners to them is gold?

Some people on this forum have talked about their beliefs, like deflation.  How'd you see prices if that came true?

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Russian gold reserves continue to grow:

 

Russian gold reserves up at 54.9 million ounces as of June 1

Russia's central bank, which is seeking to its international reserves, posted an increase in gold reserves in May, the fifth consecutive month of gains. Russia's gold reserves rose to 54.9 million troy ounces by early June from 54.2 million ounces as of May 1, the central bank said on Tuesday. The value of its holdings rose to $69.30 billion from $68.65 billion as of May 1.

http://www.reuters.com/article/russia-gold-reserves-idUSL8N1JH3WX

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16 hours ago, Errol said:

Russian gold reserves continue to grow:

 

Russian gold reserves up at 54.9 million ounces as of June 1

Russia's central bank, which is seeking to its international reserves, posted an increase in gold reserves in May, the fifth consecutive month of gains. Russia's gold reserves rose to 54.9 million troy ounces by early June from 54.2 million ounces as of May 1, the central bank said on Tuesday. The value of its holdings rose to $69.30 billion from $68.65 billion as of May 1.

http://www.reuters.com/article/russia-gold-reserves-idUSL8N1JH3WX

I keep seeing these reports about the Russia central bank - is this a swap with other central banks or actual physical?

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As far as I'm aware it is actual physical. Obviously none of us are able to confirm it for certain though, unless someone works in the Kremlin.

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On 23/06/2017 at 10:22 AM, Errol said:

As far as I'm aware it is actual physical................

You need to explain why you support manipulation arguments, as espoused by the gatagoons, that central bank vaults are empty of gold. But claim the Chineses and Russian vaults are bulging at the seams with the real deal..._

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On 2017-6-16 at 5:43 AM, reddog said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-15/south-africa-raises-black-ownership-requirement-for-mines-to-30

 

This is some bad news for gold output in what was once the world's biggest gold producer!

The whole stability of SA issue is huge for Gold. SA is to Gold as Saudi is to Oil. Could cause a massive spike in the future, especially if Gold has already begun to rise.

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Does anyone else here have gold held with Goldmoney, or own shares. I have some with them, and they recently streamlined their set-up. They now have over 1 million customers, 2 billion in holdings and no debt (they have a crappy office in Toronto so costs are low). To me they seem well placed, and a have massive growth potential in the event of Gold breakout.

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Just to add on the subject of Goldmoney for me. At some point I think there will be a bitcoin "emperor's new clothes" moment, I may be wrong, but it feels like the the dotcom bubble to me...there is something there that will survive into the long term, but not sure what yet. When that happens I think that Goldmoney's moment will arrive. Uses private blockchain technology, backed by physical gold that you hold and trade vs regular currency. The fact it is working with 5 vaults now means it is very real.

https://www.goldmoney.com/corporate/news/goldmoney-inc-adds-the-royal-canadian-mint-to-vault-network

"As of today, Goldmoney Personal and Business users can now instantly purchase any amount of 100% reserved physical gold in the Mint’s Ottawa vault using Goldmoney’s proprietary, closed-loop blockchain technology, for a 0.50% fee and receive free storage for up to 1,000 grams through Goldmoney."

Edited by HovelinHove

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I find Goldmoney an interesting concept but the fees aren't exactly low.......

 

What are the costs of GoldMoney?

Premium/mark-up for buying and selling gold

Mark-up / mark-down of about 0.07% for each purchase and sale

Commission for purchasing gold

Commissions for the purchase of gold: 0.5%

Commission for selling gold

Commissions for the sale of gold: 0.5%

Storage and insurance

  • Storage with LOOMIS or Malca Amit: 0.01% (monthly), 0.12% (annually)
  • Storage with other storage companies: 0.015% (monthly), 0.18% (annually)
  • Minimum fee of 0.001 grams per month for gold (ca. 5 cents (US))

Gold storage fees are applied per vault, i.e., if you hold gold in different vaults, you have to pay the storage fee several times.

Bank wire fee

For the transfer of funds from GoldMoney to the client’s bank account, a bank wire fee is charged. The fee varies by currency. The fee amounts to US$ 20 or a similar amount in other currencies.

Withdrawal fee for delivery of gold

  • Information only on request

 

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OK, so this whole 'paper gold' thing is the bit that I fail to understand, and I'd appreciate if somebody clarified it to me.

PMs prices are believed to be manipulated by ETFs which have no backing in gold and are settled with fiat.

This is supposed to drive the price down, as real demand for gold is met with artificial 'paper' supply from ETFs.

That's what I'm struggling to wrap my head around.

If the buyer is willing to accept fiat instead of physical gold, then I don't think there was any demand for physical in the first place. There was demand for an ETF itself, and that demand was met with adequate supply.

Buyers who are in the market for physical will accept nothing less, so no amount of 'paper' gold will drive the price down for them, as it's a different product.

What am I missing here?

 

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On 2017-6-25 at 9:14 AM, GreenDevil said:

Whayts the point of gold backed? Bitcoin is doing perfectly well with out gold backing just with a limited supply.

A limited supply of what exactly? Bitcoin relies 100% in confidence or belief that it is a real currency, if that confidence were to evaporate, then the Emperor would be naked. The point of having backing linked to a relatively rare commodity, albeit one without any real purpose other than being a store of wealth, is that people can produce the gold if they need to and this can be traded for its residual value. People's understanding of money has become so perverted by the post Gold-standard era that they cannot see the fundamental potential flaw lying at the heart of the whole Bitcoin concept...it essentially has no intrinsic value.

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Central Bank Intervention Slams Paper Gold

This isn’t some trader’s “fat finger” accidentally overloading the sell button and pressing “sell.” This is unadulterated BIS/ECB/BoE/Fed sponsored market intervention:

At 4:01 EST, a paper gold nuclear bomb was detonated in the Comex Globex computer system. The graph is just the August “front month” paper gold contract on the Comex. In that contract 1.49 million ozs of paper gold were dumped into the Comex electronic trading system. Zerohedge is attributing 1.88 million ozs. That would include the selling in all of the paper gold contract months.

Here’s the reason that today was selected by the BIS et al to attack gold in the paper market in an effort to scare the crap out of the market: The largest buyers of physical gold in the world right now, India + Turkey, were closed for the observance of a religious holiday. And Shanghai closed for the day 31 minutes earlier.

4:00 a.m. EST is one of the slowest, lowest volume trading periods during any 24 hour period. Why would a seller of a large number of contracts sell at that time of day, when the largest buyers of what is being sold are not in the market at the time of the sale?

http://investmentresearchdynamics.com/central-bank-intervention-slams-paper-gold/

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