Guest UK Debt Slave Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Great piece by Gerald Warner on Greece versus the EU in Breitbart London this morning The EU is dead: It just refuses to lie down http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/15/the-eu-is-dead-it-just-refuses-to-lie-down/ This EU crisis is an internal conflict within the international Left. Anybody who lived through the Soviet party schisms and purges of the 1930s would recognise the character of this confrontation. It is a war between the doctrinaire, unreconstructed Trots of Syriza and the pragmatic, power-crazed Stalinists of the EU. To Juncker et al. it is hugely frustrating that the crude fundamentalists of the old-style Greek left will not accommodate themselves to the slick, modern, cultural Marxist agenda of Brussels. I always look forward to Gerald Warner eviscerating the left on wednesdays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UK Debt Slave Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) deleted duplicate post Edited July 15, 2015 by UK Debt Slave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Don't know what's made the Markets more confident in the last hour or so. It's been a real battle of attrition all this week with every point fought over. It's still pointing to a Yes I guess. https://www.google.co.uk/finance?cid=12590587 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) Looks like we could be contributing their bailout..... https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/treasury-approves-eu-wide-funds-104652698.html Probably get more fizz for our buck than the usual foreign aid budget to African despots. If Cameron thinks outside of the box may be 400 mill is cheap if we can persuade the Europeans to let us off the hook on other European welfare bills in the Brexit deal. If we play hard on this, they will play hard on other stuff. Edited July 15, 2015 by crashmonitor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copydude Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Debt relief is probably necessary but is it urgent? Greece's repayments as a percentage of GDP are actually lower than many other countries. They need to sort out their economy and modernise the state as the first priority. Never mind the ****** GDP, it doesn't have the money whatever they might be. The problem of Greece is growth and competitiveness . . . which devaluation would help enormously. Many of these Troika reforms have been put in place in Cyprus, but actually they achieve very little. Sunday trading benefited the foreign supermarkets, Carrefour etc, but put hundreds of little family run kiosks out of business. Pharmacies are on strike in Greece today . . . because they have a monopoly on selling parapharmaceuticals. So, now you will be able to buy cough drops in Lidl. That's really going to turn the country around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 107 out of 201 Syriza central committee members publish declaration condemning Tsipras' agreement with Eurozone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11738150/Greece-news-live-Britain-gets-slap-in-the-face-as-Brussels-defies-Cameron-opposition-over-Greek-loans.html Whole project going to blow up soon I think. UKIP will have a field day in the run up to our vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipllman Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 The Secretary General of the Ministry of Economy appears to have resigned https://twitter.com/ManousakisManos/status/621249449344548864 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) 107 out of 201 Syriza central committee members publish declaration condemning Tsipras' agreement with Eurozone. To be fair, Tsipras himself last night in his address to parliament condemned his own agreement. Paul Mason @paulmasonnews 46m46 minutes ago Greece: 107 out of 201 members of Syriza’s central committee call for No and a party conference. Won’t derail today’s vote but significant Edited July 15, 2015 by R K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copydude Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 EU Commission proposes 7 bln euro loan for Greece for July BRUSSELS, JULY 15 REUTERS The European Commission is proposing to give a 7 billion euro ($7.7 billion) bridge loan to Greece to cover the country's financing needs in July using the European Financial Stability Mechanism (EFSM), according to document from the EU executive. The proposal, seen by Reuters, says the bridge loan would have a maximum maturity of 3 months and would be repaid to the EFSM from money that Greece is to get from the euro zone bailout fund, the European Stability Mechanism (ESM) on the conclusion of negotiations on the next, 86 billion euro three-year bailout. The proposal to use the EFSM for the bridge loan is controversial because Britain and the Czech Republic are strongly opposed to it. Unlike the ESM, which is a euro zone fund, the EFSM is an EU-wide fund, backed by the EU budget and therefore disbursements from it need the approval of all of the EU's 28 governments, rather than just the 19 of the euro zone. But decisions in the EFSM are taken by qualified majority voting, which means that if 16 countries representing 65 percent of the EU's population support a disbursement, its opponents like Britain or the Czech Republic can be outvoted. Under the Commission proposal, Greece would get the whole 7 billion in one go, allowing it to redeem its bonds held by the European Central Bank on Monday and pay its overdue obligations to the International Monetary Fund. The Commission proposal, which is to be put to EU finance ministers for approval later on Wednesday, makes clear however, that Greece can only get the bridge loan if it passes a set of reforms in its parliament already on Wednesday. It also has to formally start next bailout negotiations with the ESM -- a process that could start on Thursday or Friday. The reforms needed for the bridge loan are raising the value-added tax revenues by 1 percent of GDP annually, reforming the pension system and strengthening the independence of the Greek statistics office. To make sure the 7 billion can be raised quickly, the Commission, which would be borrowing the money, would be allowed to do it via the private placement of notes. ($1 = 0.9069 euros) (Reporting By Jan Strupczewski, editing by Robin Emmott) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) Its all ball0x. A loan to cover the loan you havent repaid. ball0x I tell you. Edited July 15, 2015 by Bloo Loo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 The proposal to use the EFSM for the bridge loan is controversial because Britain and the Czech Republic are strongly opposed to it. Germany attempting to f&ck over the Brits as well now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Germany attempting to f&ck over the Brits as well now. people who need money will do almost anything to get it. Pass the parcel is a game the bankers love, but dont want the music to stop with them holding it. the issue was the taxpayer got a chair even though he didnt realise he was playing. The idiots that put him there now dont want to be caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happy_renting Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 EU Commission proposes 7 bln euro loan for Greece for July BRUSSELS, JULY 15 REUTERS The European Commission is proposing to give a 7 billion euro ($7.7 billion) bridge loan to Greece to cover the country's financing needs in July using the European Financial Stability Mechanism (EFSM), according to document from the EU executive. The proposal, seen by Reuters, says the bridge loan would have a maximum maturity of 3 months and would be repaid to the EFSM from money that Greece is to get from the euro zone bailout fund, the European Stability Mechanism (ESM) on the conclusion of negotiations on the next, 86 billion euro three-year bailout. The proposal to use the EFSM for the bridge loan is controversial because Britain and the Czech Republic are strongly opposed to it. Unlike the ESM, which is a euro zone fund, the EFSM is an EU-wide fund, backed by the EU budget and therefore disbursements from it need the approval of all of the EU's 28 governments, rather than just the 19 of the euro zone. But decisions in the EFSM are taken by qualified majority voting, which means that if 16 countries representing 65 percent of the EU's population support a disbursement, its opponents like Britain or the Czech Republic can be outvoted. Under the Commission proposal, Greece would get the whole 7 billion in one go, allowing it to redeem its bonds held by the European Central Bank on Monday and pay its overdue obligations to the International Monetary Fund. The Commission proposal, which is to be put to EU finance ministers for approval later on Wednesday, makes clear however, that Greece can only get the bridge loan if it passes a set of reforms in its parliament already on Wednesday. It also has to formally start next bailout negotiations with the ESM -- a process that could start on Thursday or Friday. The reforms needed for the bridge loan are raising the value-added tax revenues by 1 percent of GDP annually, reforming the pension system and strengthening the independence of the Greek statistics office. To make sure the 7 billion can be raised quickly, the Commission, which would be borrowing the money, would be allowed to do it via the private placement of notes. ($1 = 0.9069 euros) (Reporting By Jan Strupczewski, editing by Robin Emmott) Are there actually cormant funds in the EFSM? Or is it a sum that can be 'called upon' from member states when needed? Good Telegraph article on Cameron's embarrasment: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11737286/EU-demands-Britain-joins-Greek-rescue-fund.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) Frederik Ducrozet @fwred 5h5 hours ago EFSM - "The EU Council shall act by a qualified majority on a proposal from the Commission". http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=URISERV:ec0009 … Frederik Ducrozet @fwred 4h4 hours ago UK can be overruled with >65% of the population (or >24 countries) supporting the EFSM, or am I missing something? Poor Dave........snookered. Edited July 15, 2015 by R K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happy_renting Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Dave will cave in, in the hope that the EU will toss us some crumbs in 2017 in the run-up to the referendum. We are agreeing to being robbed by the EU in hope that it will later bribe us to stay in the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Bear Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) Lol - if only you turn back time - there is a song in there somewhere. Edited July 15, 2015 by Rare Bear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Cher and Cher-alike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer466 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) Probably get more fizz for our buck than the usual foreign aid budget to African despots. If Cameron thinks outside of the box may be 400 mill is cheap if we can persuade the Europeans to let us off the hook on other European welfare bills in the Brexit deal. If we play hard on this, they will play hard on other stuff. Or Cameron actually grows a pair of balls and uses our money and our participation as a lever to extract concessions regarding treaty change.... The EU is desperate if he doesn't make hay now he never will. I know, I know I know..... fat chance.........But Dave should be driving this not stood on the side lines waving a Euro flag. Edited July 15, 2015 by geezer466 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will! Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Another article from AEP: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11739985/IMF-stuns-Europe-with-call-for-massive-Greek-debt-relief.html Essentially IMF are saying they want no part of a further bail out, EZ are insisting that IMF is involved in any rescue package. I can't see the point in the Greeks bothering to enact the preconditions unless they want to pin the blame for Grexit on the EZ, there doesn't appear to be much likelyhood of the EZ agreeing a new bailout so anything the Greeks do is for nought. Tsipras is either incredibly lucky or a genius. 1) Germany says "no debt write off and IMF involvement." 2) Tsipras says "debt write off." 3) Germany says "no debt write off and IMF involvement." 4) Tsipras holds referendum which rejects "no debt write off." 5) Germany says "no debt write off and IMF involvement." 6) Tsipras says "my referendum rejected 'no debt write off' but OK, let's say 'no debt write off and IMF involvement.'" 7) IMF (position now exposed by Tsipras' apparent acceptance of German position) says "debt write off." Looks like Tsipras gets debt write off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copydude Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Poor Dave........snookered. Someone just drove a tank through one of his 'red lines'. I especially liked the bit about the 7bn being paid back from bailout #3 . . . . Besides being 'pie in the sky' accounting, there not being a bailout #3 at this time . . . The intention is that the 86bn will come from the same source, giving Dave another chance to generously donate . . Bottom line, the whole EU is now on the hook for the Euro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Tsipras is either incredibly lucky or a genius. Only if his aim is Grexit. I can't see a 3rd bailout happening, the IMF have said they won't be involved without a w/off, the EZ say that this is impossible due to the treaties in place, stalemate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giesahoose Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Just watching the greek MP ripping up a document and throwing it in the air. The place was half empty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Or Cameron actually grows a pair of balls and uses our money and our participation as a lever to extract concessions regarding treaty change.... The EU is desperate if he doesn't make hay now he never will. I know, I know I know..... fat chance.........But Dave should be driving this not stood on the side lines waving a Euro flag. Well Mr Tsipras threatened to pull the plug on over E300bn & look what concessions from Germany that won him. If Dave thinks he's getting anything from Germany they don't want to give him anyway he's truly living in la la land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happy_renting Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Just watching the greek MP ripping up a document and throwing it in the air. The place was half empty I do hope it was the Maastricht Treaty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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