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THE GREAT BIG FAT GREEK THREAD


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#3091 frederico

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 08:53 PM

I am bored with Greece now.

It keeps promising to blow up the global financial system but never delivers. A bit like those Greek waiters who promise to take British girls to Heaven and back, but who only make it as their hotel bedroom. :blink:

the thing about greece is that nothing has changed, just the loans extended and moved to a different lender, the lender of last resort, the question is can that lender support spain, ireland, portugal and italy.

what happens when greece needs another 130bn, and then the whole Greek national debt is covered by the ECB and IMF and is still growing.
Latest news, 5000 jobs to be created transferred to ASDA, the new high tech, knowledge based economy is powering ahead.

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#3092 8 year itch

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:16 PM

http://www.guardian....isis?CMP=twt_gu

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No need to sell up, the next phase of the economics cycle is going to be very positive for anyone that owns property.

All I'm sayings is, don't listen to the property bears people, they are wrong.


#3093 interestrateripoff

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:08 PM

http://uk.reuters.co...E82R17J20120328

Greece must tackle its aversion to mandatory redundancies and the closure of public entities if it is to fully escape its debt crisis, the country's International Monetary Fund mission chief said in London on Wednesday


It won't escape the debt crisis until it defaults.

Proof that Brown had repeated IMF / OECD / BIS warnings over house prices and did nothing!!!
Looting: The Economic Underworld Of Bankruptcy For Profit
The exponential growth of debt and the unsustainability of debt
The logic of HPI @ 10% YoY means your £100k house would be worth £1.38bn in 100 years
Paying down my mortgage with money found on the street

It's time to sue the Bank of England / Federal Reserve for GROSS NEGLIGENCE
If DEBT is the problem REPAYMENT is the solution or you default

 

"The trouble with the world was that prices were so low that only the rich people could buy and the aim of the Conference was to raise them to a point where it would again be possible for poor people to buy something."

"Northern unemployment is an acceptable price to pay for curbing southern inflation" Eddie George former Governor of the Bank of England

New digest on the credit crisis and economy Part2 Part 3

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#3094 JaneTracy

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 12:45 PM

Just when you thought it couldnt get any worse in Greece take a look at this.

Update: Greek retail sales

Just after I wrote this post these were released and what a grim tale they tell.

The retail trade volume index, including automotive fuel, decreased by 10.3% in January 2012 compared with January 2011. The Index in January 2011 recorded a decrease of 16.1% compared with January 2010 .

For those who follow the underlying index then it is now at 79.6 where the base is 2005=100.


http://www.mindfulmo...is-a-toxic-mix/

Chilling isnt it? Where is the improvement we keep being promised by her government and the Euro zone.....?

#3095 interestrateripoff

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 12:49 PM

Just when you thought it couldnt get any worse in Greece take a look at this.



http://www.mindfulmo...is-a-toxic-mix/

Chilling isnt it? Where is the improvement we keep being promised by her government and the Euro zone.....?


So if the base is 2005 and it's now 79.6, where does that place the Greek economy? 2000? Or earlier?

Edited by interestrateripoff, 30 March 2012 - 12:49 PM.

Proof that Brown had repeated IMF / OECD / BIS warnings over house prices and did nothing!!!
Looting: The Economic Underworld Of Bankruptcy For Profit
The exponential growth of debt and the unsustainability of debt
The logic of HPI @ 10% YoY means your £100k house would be worth £1.38bn in 100 years
Paying down my mortgage with money found on the street

It's time to sue the Bank of England / Federal Reserve for GROSS NEGLIGENCE
If DEBT is the problem REPAYMENT is the solution or you default

 

"The trouble with the world was that prices were so low that only the rich people could buy and the aim of the Conference was to raise them to a point where it would again be possible for poor people to buy something."

"Northern unemployment is an acceptable price to pay for curbing southern inflation" Eddie George former Governor of the Bank of England

New digest on the credit crisis and economy Part2 Part 3

smaller.jpg


#3096 copydude

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 01:34 PM

So if the base is 2005 and it's now 79.6, where does that place the Greek economy? 2000? Or earlier?


Yes, it's being internally devalued back to the stone age.

#3097 billybong

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 01:50 PM

Just when you thought it couldnt get any worse in Greece take a look at this.



http://www.mindfulmo...is-a-toxic-mix/

Chilling isnt it? Where is the improvement we keep being promised by her government and the Euro zone.....?

Fom the comments.

Hi Shaun a good analysis of the failings of current economic theories, as being implemented in the Eurozone. Theories are one thing, the reality is how it affects the lives of ordinary citizens. It seems a gratuitously cruel experiment with youths and pensioners playing the roles of the lead laboratory rats. I just wonder how long it is until the rats wake up and make good their escape?

Talking of inflation, I guess you've seen the excellent article on the subject this week from your blogosphere nextdoor neighbour Simon Ward?

"In a Guardian interview a year ago the MPC’s leading dove, Adam Posen, predicted that inflation would tumble to 1.5% by the middle of 2012 and stated that: “If I have made the wrong call, not only will I switch my vote, I would not pursue a second term.”
Will Dr. Posen honour his pledge or try to shift the goalposts by appealing to economic weakness or claiming his forecast was blown off course by yet more “one-off” shocks?"

I like Simon's use of the term "economic weakness" meaning more inflation, I guess he sees things the same way as you! H But, has Posen got any "wriggle room" do you think, or will he be bidding us, the MPC and his index linked pension au revoir?


Edited by billybong, 30 March 2012 - 01:51 PM.


#3098 copydude

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:14 PM

Fom the comments.

Theories are one thing, the reality is how it affects the lives of ordinary citizens. It seems a gratuitously cruel experiment with youths and pensioners playing the roles of the lead laboratory rats. I just wonder how long it is until the rats wake up and make good their escape?


Jane T posts good stuff from that blog. It's nof theory anymore, is it. Portugal, Spain, Greece . . . not forgetting Latvia, where the economy shrunk 29% and 10% of the workforce left the country . . . kinda proves that internal devaluation is a self-defeating social holocaust.

But Merkel knows best.

Greek bailout 3 is coming sooner than anyone thinks. Along with total anarchy.

#3099 Game_Over

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 05:28 PM

You would think Stagflation had never occurred.

Producers cannot reduces prices below the level at which they are able to make a profit.

And if fixed costs are rising then prices will rise no matter how weak the demand is.

:blink:

#3100 Game_Over

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 05:30 PM

Jane T posts good stuff from that blog. It's nof theory anymore, is it. Portugal, Spain, Greece . . . not forgetting Latvia, where the economy shrunk 29% and 10% of the workforce left the country . . . kinda proves that internal devaluation is a self-defeating social holocaust.

But Merkel knows best.

Greek bailout 3 is coming sooner than anyone thinks. Along with total anarchy.


To be fair, the only way out of this is to dismantle everything that was done in the last 30-40 years

And none of the current crop of politicians is prepared or capable of doing this.

Whatever happens it isn't going to end well.

:(

#3101 Deckard

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 09:19 PM

Greek bailout 3 is coming sooner than anyone thinks.


L-Pap practically announced it already.

Prime Minister Lucas Papademos was Friday unable to give opposition party leaders the reassurances they sought that wages and pensions will be protected from further cuts but stressed that the full implementation of reforms was crucial to safeguard the country’s eventual exit from the crisis.

Responding to questions by Giorgos Karatzaferis, leader of the Popular Orthodox Rally (LAOS), which broke from the governing coalition in February, and by the head of the Coalition of the Radical Left (SYRIZA), Alexis Tsipras, the premier did not try to present a rosy picture. The aim is to avoid further wage cuts, he said. “But there can be no commitment.”

He added that the outlook for rising unemployment was not good, noting that “joblessness will probably increase and the recession will probably continue.”

“The economy will remain weak for the most part of 2013,” he added, revising a more optimistic prediction he had made a few weeks ago of a likely recovery from the middle of next year. “This year will not be easy. And the beginning of next year will not be easy,” he said.

On pensions, Papademos said the state had the capacity to fund them until 2015 but that state funding and benefits must be cut to ensure their viability after that.

As for further cuts of 12 billion euros that the government has promised creditors, Papademos said authorities were drafting proposals on how these cuts will be achieved. The tough job, however, of implementing the proposals and raising the revenue will fall to the next administration. :lol: “The next government and the next parliament will decide,” he said, adding that “the decisions won’t be easy.”

Comments by the premier to Italian daily Il Sole 24 Ore in an interview published Friday were also downbeat. Papademos said he could not rule out a third bailout. “Greece will do everything possible to make a third adjustment program unnecessary,” he said. “Having said that, markets may not be accessible by Greece even if it has implemented fully all measures agreed on. It cannot be excluded that some financial support may be necessary.”

Papademos is urging ministers to focus on approving reforms ahead of elections, expected on May 6. One of the reforms -- the liberalization of the taxi sector -- is to be debated in Parliament on Monday. A bill outlining the changes was tweaked Friday after MPs proposed changes.


It's just a question of how soon.
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#3102 Josieful

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 12:35 PM

Jane T posts good stuff from that blog. It's nof theory anymore, is it. Portugal, Spain, Greece . . . not forgetting Latvia, where the economy shrunk 29% and 10% of the workforce left the country . . . kinda proves that internal devaluation is a self-defeating social holocaust.

But Merkel knows best.

Greek bailout 3 is coming sooner than anyone thinks. Along with total anarchy.


Yes I agree and the post referred to was very informative about how the Greeks have suffered from inflation at a time that economic theory would have told you they would not have any! And that it was being made worse by the wage cuts.....

How will they ever repay the debt with falling real wages? Is an insightful question.

#3103 Game_Over

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 04:01 PM

Yes I agree and the post referred to was very informative about how the Greeks have suffered from inflation at a time that economic theory would have told you they would not have any! And that it was being made worse by the wage cuts.....

How will they ever repay the debt with falling real wages? Is an insightful question.


Answer

They are never going to repay the debt.

They have already defaulted - just not 100%

Yet.....

:blink:

#3104 copydude

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 08:29 PM

Answer

They are never going to repay the debt.

:blink:


Well, that's politics versus maths again, innit.

The Greek economy is (maybe now was) 80% tourism and service industries.

Its tourism and services, thanks to overvalued Euros, are 40% overvalued in comparison to its nearest competitor. Turkey. To which the EU has insisted on adding 25% VAT on every glass of retsina and restaurant bill . . . only to bury its service industry still deeper.

Euro exit might not save Greece from long term debt. But at least it could become competiitive again. Overnight.

#3105 Errol

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:52 PM

Pensioner shoots himself at Greek Parliament, refuses to 'search for food in garbage'

A 77-year-old Greek man has committed suicide in central Athens by the nation’s parliament, shooting himself with a handgun in apparent financial desperation.

The suicide was released by the Greek newspaper Proto Thema. In the note, the deceased forecasts the Greek government a fate similar to Benito Mussolini’s if they continue robbing young people of their future.

Young people without a future will one day take up arms and hang the traitors upside down in Syntagma Square, as the Italians did to Mussolini in 1945,” the message reportedly reads.

http://rt.com/news/greece-suicide-218/

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