Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 3 votes

THE GREAT BIG FAT GREEK THREAD


  • Please log in to reply
4749 replies to this topic

#3076 Bloo Loo

Bloo Loo

    Ripened on the Diversity Vine

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 52,415 posts
  • Location:Essex-the land of Equality
  • About Me:Im Bloo yabba dee yabba die.

Posted 16 March 2012 - 04:49 PM

Not really.

It was Merkel's, Germany and the EU's decision to spin this out for over 2 years and ultimately turn Greece into the Technokrat protectorate it is today.

Notwithstanding that it was recylcing of predominately German savings whilst the ECB in Frankfurt were setting rates to favour Germany (i.e. inflating the Piggies).

Under those circumstances one could easily argue Greece was acting 'rationally'. i.e. Spending the Germans savings. Without their own currency they didn't have a great deal of choice.

Savers are the real culprits here, though, since they also hold power, refuse to admit it.

Do they understand this yet? (Germany) It's not entirely clear that they do...............


they had all the choice in the world...but with EU politicians throwing money at them..why bother to do the "right thing"...admit their state and close up shop.
WARNING

Your
country is at risk
if you
do not keep up repayments
on a gilt or other loan secured on it





#3077 plnouparouvpred

plnouparouvpred

    HPC Poster

  • New Members
  • PipPip
  • 84 posts

Posted 16 March 2012 - 05:26 PM

How much will be greece debt to gdp after additional bailout?

#3078 mightytharg

mightytharg

    HPC Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,324 posts

Posted 16 March 2012 - 05:40 PM

they had all the choice in the world...but with EU politicians throwing money at them..why bother to do the "right thing"...admit their state and close up shop.


I think the choice put to the government workers was "spend less money or you will have to default*"

*default means a huge transfer of wealth from the private sector to government workers


So, spend less or be given billions, I think I can see why they chose the billions.

#3079 interestrateripoff

interestrateripoff

    Carry on banking.....

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 46,781 posts
  • Location:Ponzi Land

Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:38 PM

http://www.zerohedge...ll-greece-needs

Listen up muppet masters - if you have put in a bid for that Greek jewel of Santorini on Ebay, it may be time to quietly withdraw from the auction. Because according to Georgia Tech, things may get rather shaky soon. Literally: "After decades of little activity, a series of earthquakes and deformation began within the Santorini caldera in January of 2011,” said Newman, whose research is published by Geophysical Research Letters. “Since then, our instruments on the northern part of the island have moved laterally between five and nine centimeters. The volcano’s magma chamber is filling, and we are keeping a close eye on its activity.” Because the only thing that Greece, whose primary business is tourism, needs, is for the biggest Cyclades tourist attraction to go up in a pyroclastic cloud.

From GAtech:

Newman, a geophysicist in the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences, cannot be certain whether an eruption is imminent since observations of such activity on these types of volcanoes are limited. In fact, similar calderas around the globe have shown comparable activity without erupting.
However, Newman says the chamber has expanded by 14 million cubic meters since last January. That means enough magma has been pumped into the chamber to fill a sphere three football fields across.


I'm sure nothing will happen.

Imagine the fallout if we do get a volcanic eruption...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorini

Santorini is essentially what remains after an enormous volcanic explosion that destroyed the earliest settlements, on a formerly single island, and created the current geological caldera. A giant central, rectangular lagoon, which measures about 12 by 7 km (7.5 by 4.3 mi), is surrounded by 300 m (980 ft) high, steep cliffs on three sides. The main island slopes downward to the Aegean Sea. On the fourth side, the lagoon is separated from the sea by another much smaller island called Therasia; the lagoon is connected to the sea in two places, in the northwest and southwest. The caldera being 400m deep makes it impossible for all but the largest ships to anchor anywhere in the protected bay; there is, however, a newly built marina in Vlychada on the southwestern coast. The principal port is called Athinias. The capital, Fira, clings to the top of the cliff looking down on the lagoon. The volcanic rocks present from the prior eruptions feature olivine and have a notably small presence of hornblende.[2]

It is the most active volcanic centre in the South Aegean Volcanic Arc, though what remains today is chiefly a water-filled caldera. The volcanic arc is approximately 500 km (310 mi) long and 20 to 40 km (12 to 25 mi) wide. The region first became volcanically active around 3–4 million years ago, though volcanism on Thera began around 2 million years ago with the extrusion of dacitic lavas from vents around the Akrotiri.

The island is the site of one of the largest volcanic eruptions in recorded history:
the Minoan eruption (sometimes called the Thera eruption), which occurred some 3600 years ago at the height of the Minoan civilization. The eruption left a large caldera surrounded by volcanic ash deposits hundreds of feet deep and may have led indirectly to the collapse of the Minoan civilization on the island of Crete, 110 km (68 mi) to the south, through a gigantic tsunami. This theory is not, however, supported by chronology, in that the collapse of the Minoan civilization did not occur at the date of the tsunami, but some 90 years later.[citation needed] Another popular theory holds that the Thera eruption is the source of the legend of Atlantis.[3]


Still I'm sure there's nothing to worry about...
Proof that Brown had repeated IMF / OECD / BIS warnings over house prices and did nothing!!!
Looting: The Economic Underworld Of Bankruptcy For Profit
The exponential growth of debt and the unsustainability of debt
The logic of HPI @ 10% YoY means your £100k house would be worth £1.38bn in 100 years
Paying down my mortgage with money found on the street

It's time to sue the Bank of England / Federal Reserve for GROSS NEGLIGENCE
If DEBT is the problem REPAYMENT is the solution or you default

"Northern unemployment is an acceptable price to pay for curbing southern inflation" Eddie George former Governor of the Bank of England

New digest on the credit crisis and economy Part2 Part 3

Posted Image

#3080 R K

R K

    I live on HPC!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,816 posts
  • Location:Republik of Mancunia

Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:25 PM

Gazprom looking to join in the state asset sale party.........

http://blogs.ft.com/..._medium=twitter

#geopolitics


"The problem with capitalism is that eventually you end up with everyone else's money" RK
"We have now entered The Great Rebalancing 2007-20xx" - RK
"Gold will go to $1000, Silver to $18" - RK August 2011
QE £100bn and build 1m council homes - RK
Carney announces the launch of Empire 2.0 - Rise of the Banksters Oct '13


#3081 billybong

billybong

    I live on HPC!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,727 posts

Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:43 PM

Not really.

It was Merkel's, Germany and the EU's decision to spin this out for over 2 years and ultimately turn Greece into the Technokrat protectorate it is today.

Notwithstanding that it was recylcing of predominately German savings whilst the ECB in Frankfurt were setting rates to favour Germany (i.e. inflating the Piggies).

Under those circumstances one could easily argue Greece was acting 'rationally'. i.e. Spending the Germans savings. Without their own currency they didn't have a great deal of choice.

Savers are the real culprits here, though, since they also hold power, refuse to admit it.

Do they understand this yet? (Germany) It's not entirely clear that they do...............



Whatever Merkel has done to try to mitigate/aggravate things and whatever Greek did rationally/irrationally by delaying taking action on their profligacy the "huge effect on markets" has turned into a gargantuan, prodigious (and the rest) .........effect on their markets/economy and now possibly other economies.

Also compromising and risking control of their nation.

They're in default they're bankrupt and they're going to suffer the affects of their decision making for decades and decades.

Edited by billybong, 16 March 2012 - 10:52 PM.


#3082 frederico

frederico

    HPC Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,198 posts

Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:27 AM

Whatever Merkel has done to try to mitigate/aggravate things and whatever Greek did rationally/irrationally by delaying taking action on their profligacy the "huge effect on markets" has turned into a gargantuan, prodigious (and the rest) .........effect on their markets/economy and now possibly other economies.

Also compromising and risking control of their nation.

They're in default they're bankrupt and they're going to suffer the affects of their decision making for decades and decades.

yes they are and they are just going to owe more and more cash to the imf and ecb.

The 700bn 'firewall' needs to be about 3 trn in the end.

All this debt will take decades to sort out, for a start, the various economies have to actually balance their budgets at some point. This is going to be an incredibly painful experience, unemployment will rise and rise, asset prices will fall, poverty will increase.

Consumption will have to slow right down.

For what it's worth, they did have a chance to sort it all out, but I think that time is fast running out.

Orderly defaults just give the debt to somebody else for a while.
Latest news, 5000 jobs to be created transferred to ASDA, the new high tech, knowledge based economy is powering ahead.

McDonald's says it will create 2,500 new jobs across the UK this year, taking its workforce to 90,000

#3083 stormymonday_2011

stormymonday_2011

    HPC Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,185 posts

Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:30 PM

There's some dispute about where and when it all started, but Christos Kamenides, genial professor of agricultural marketing at the University of Thessaloniki, is pretty confident he and his students have made sure it's not about to stop any time soon.

What's sure is that the so-called potato movement, through which thousands of tonnes of potatoes and other agricultural produce – including, hopefully, next month, Easter lamb – are being sold directly to consumers by their producers, is taking off across Greece.

"It's because everyone benefits," said Kamenides, standing in a clearing in the woods above Thessaloniki in front of one 25-tonne truck of potatoes, another of onions, and smaller vans of rice and olives. "Consumers gets good-quality food for a third of the price they would normally pay, and the producers get their money straight away."


http://www.guardian....ovement-farmers

Greeks on the first steps to building a closed economy ? How is the Euro tax man going to control this process ?
The certainty of misery is preferable to the the misery of uncertainty

#3084 interestrateripoff

interestrateripoff

    Carry on banking.....

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 46,781 posts
  • Location:Ponzi Land

Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:19 PM

http://www.athensnew.../portal/1/54197

A 70-year-old man has been arrested after opening fire with a shotgun inside an Athens tax office.

Shortly after 11am, the man arrived at the entrance of Agia Paraskevi tax office and started shooting, causing only material damage. He then entered the building but did not threaten any of the officials.

Police rushed to the scene and succeeded in arresting the man, about an hour later, after encouraging him to drop his weapon.


I wonder if he'll just get let off?
Proof that Brown had repeated IMF / OECD / BIS warnings over house prices and did nothing!!!
Looting: The Economic Underworld Of Bankruptcy For Profit
The exponential growth of debt and the unsustainability of debt
The logic of HPI @ 10% YoY means your £100k house would be worth £1.38bn in 100 years
Paying down my mortgage with money found on the street

It's time to sue the Bank of England / Federal Reserve for GROSS NEGLIGENCE
If DEBT is the problem REPAYMENT is the solution or you default

"Northern unemployment is an acceptable price to pay for curbing southern inflation" Eddie George former Governor of the Bank of England

New digest on the credit crisis and economy Part2 Part 3

Posted Image

#3085 happy_renting

happy_renting

    Mildly Irritated

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,574 posts

Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:24 PM

http://www.athensnew.../portal/1/54197



I wonder if he'll just get let off?

This is what you get for parthenon the debt onto taxpayers.






I'll get my coat.

#3086 plnouparouvpred

plnouparouvpred

    HPC Poster

  • New Members
  • PipPip
  • 84 posts

Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:26 PM

Greece’s central bank warned in its annual report that the country’s GDP will contract by 4,5% this year. Greece is expected to enter a fifth straight year of recession in 2012, and the economic recovery is likely to start only in 2013. the GDP’s average annual contraction will stand at 4.5% in 2012, after Greek economy shrank 6.9% in 2011. The unemployment rate rose to 17.7% and is feared to exceed 19% this year. Moreover, despite the austerity measures passed by the government, public deficit rose to 10.6% of GDP in 2011, well above the 9% target. However, the central bank is confident that the economic recovery will start in 2013, which would lead to fewer dismissals and a lower inflation rate. My link


Everything gonna be a right.

#3087 interestrateripoff

interestrateripoff

    Carry on banking.....

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 46,781 posts
  • Location:Ponzi Land

Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:31 PM

http://dealbook.nyti...e/?ref=business

ATHENS — In unmarked offices here on a dusty block choked with strip clubs and burned-out buildings, several dozen employees of a Wall Street firm spent months poring over bank loan portfolios as Greece struggled with its debt crisis.

They belong to what has become the go-to SWAT team in financial crises. Their employer, BlackRock, may be little known outside financial circles even as it manages a world-leading $3.51 trillion of assets, but the firm is exerting enormous influence as a behind-the-scenes adviser to troubled governments around the globe.

In Greece, BlackRock is helping determine just how much capital the country’s banks will need to raise in the coming months. It is a crucial step as Greece tries to fix its banking industry and its broader economy, but the task is a risky one.


BlackRock to the rescue..
Proof that Brown had repeated IMF / OECD / BIS warnings over house prices and did nothing!!!
Looting: The Economic Underworld Of Bankruptcy For Profit
The exponential growth of debt and the unsustainability of debt
The logic of HPI @ 10% YoY means your £100k house would be worth £1.38bn in 100 years
Paying down my mortgage with money found on the street

It's time to sue the Bank of England / Federal Reserve for GROSS NEGLIGENCE
If DEBT is the problem REPAYMENT is the solution or you default

"Northern unemployment is an acceptable price to pay for curbing southern inflation" Eddie George former Governor of the Bank of England

New digest on the credit crisis and economy Part2 Part 3

Posted Image

#3088 billybong

billybong

    I live on HPC!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,727 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 01:55 AM

...but the firm is exerting enormous influence as a behind-the-scenes adviser to troubled governments around the globe.

In Greece, BlackRock is helping determine just how much capital the country’s banks will need to raise in the coming months. It is a crucial step as Greece tries to fix its banking industry and its broader economy, but the task is a risky one.


Sounds a bit like Squidy's role in 2002 when Greece wanted "behind the scenes" advice then.

Thank goodness lessons will have been learnt :rolleyes:

"...helping determine just how much capital the country’s banks will need to raise in the coming months" possibly means how much if they go Drachma but just as likely means how much bailout money to ask for the next time?

#3089 interestrateripoff

interestrateripoff

    Carry on banking.....

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 46,781 posts
  • Location:Ponzi Land

Posted 25 March 2012 - 06:41 PM

Eurozone debt crisis: how Greece could exit the euro

..

Already into its fifth year of recession, more than half of Greece’s under 25s are now out of work. Yet the government is promising to cut another 150,000 public sector jobs over the next three years. With protests on the streets and an election in April, who knows how much austerity is even deliverable.

..

Hence the planning for an eventual Athens exit – not least by the Greeks. Some €16bn has been sent abroad since 2009, with Britain the favoured destination – as the mini-boom at the top of London’s housing market might testify. Meanwhile, bank deposits in Greece have fallen by €70bn over the same period.

As the country’s outgoing finance minister Evangelos Venizelos noted, while this is partly due to families or businesses raiding savings to cope with the crisis: “Many billions are kept in homes. They are, as we say, in mattresses or boxes.”

..

In the next month we should start seeing the first entries to the Wolfson Economic Prize, the £250,000 award for “the person who is able to articulate how best to manage the orderly exit of one of more member states from the European Monetary Union”. Many of the world’s top economists are sweating the numbers. In Greece’s case, it might go something like this.

It would start with a shock weekend announcement. First question: would it be an agreed or hostile exit? Assume agreed, as a hostile one would unleash chaos, with runs on eurozone banks, not least in Portugal, Ireland, Spain and Italy. But who would Greece agree it with – given the dangers of leaks?

Miles Saltiel, the lead author of the Adam Smith Institute’s entry for the Wolfson prize, envisages Greece holding a “relatively last-minute conference call with about a dozen people”. They might include ECB chief Mario Draghi, Germany’s Angela Merkel and whoever is then in charge of France – or, more likely in Saltiel’s view, their civil service representatives. The IMF would probably be in on the call too.


:lol: :lol:

The danger of leaks I'm sure the Greek political elites have been very busy getting their cash out of the Greek system.

It will probably be the worst kept secret of all time. We'll have endless denials from the elites before it happens. I really can't see them swallowing their pride until the bitter end.
Proof that Brown had repeated IMF / OECD / BIS warnings over house prices and did nothing!!!
Looting: The Economic Underworld Of Bankruptcy For Profit
The exponential growth of debt and the unsustainability of debt
The logic of HPI @ 10% YoY means your £100k house would be worth £1.38bn in 100 years
Paying down my mortgage with money found on the street

It's time to sue the Bank of England / Federal Reserve for GROSS NEGLIGENCE
If DEBT is the problem REPAYMENT is the solution or you default

"Northern unemployment is an acceptable price to pay for curbing southern inflation" Eddie George former Governor of the Bank of England

New digest on the credit crisis and economy Part2 Part 3

Posted Image

#3090 The Masked Tulip

The Masked Tulip

    I live on HPC!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 38,791 posts
  • Location:Swansea, West Wales

Posted 25 March 2012 - 07:44 PM

The danger of leaks I'm sure the Greek political elites have been very busy getting their cash out of the Greek system.

It will probably be the worst kept secret of all time. We'll have endless denials from the elites before it happens. I really can't see them swallowing their pride until the bitter end.




I am bored with Greece now.

It keeps promising to blow up the global financial system but never delivers. A bit like those Greek waiters who promise to take British girls to Heaven and back, but who only make it as their hotel bedroom. :blink:
The success or failure of your deeds does not add up to the sum of your life. Your spirit cannot be weighed. Judge yourself by the intention of your actions and by the strength you faced the challenges that have stood in your way.

The people closest to you have been trying to tell you that you have made a difference. That you did change things for the better. The Universe is vast and we are so small. There is really only one thing that we can ever truly control - whether we are good or evil.


The political triumph of the American Right has been to advance relentlessly the economic interests of the country's richest people, while emphasising a swath of moral, social and foreign policy issues that motivate and certainly distract middle-class and poor voters.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users