Milton

A Solution For First Time Buyers?

35 posts in this topic

Post your theoretical solutions:

I will begin with:

State Owned Lloyds Banking Group have been left holding vast tracts of residential land banks.

What is to stop the Government seize-ing these vast tracts of residential land from Lloyds?

1.] Setting up a Development Trust for First Time Buyer's.

2.] One FTB is entitled to buy just one plot of land, for a vastly reduced rate, [60% off current land values.]

[With the caveat that each FTB will have to borrow from Lloyds, to build a house on their plot.]

[They could even include a clause which states that FTB'er's cannot sell the land/house for ten years.

And then only back to the Development Trust for a fair market value.

And that the Development Trust must retain the land, to sell onto another FTB.

That way the land always remain's as 'affordable']

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**Surely this would be a much Fairer democratic balance, and more equal spread of deficit reduction, than stealing FTB'ers money to bail out Lloyds, to pay to keep 'everyone else's' property massively overinflated, ensuring FTB'ers can never afford their own property, and remain in 'debt slavery?'

Especially considering it was systemic fraud which fuelled high house prices for over ten years.

The 2 Million 'priced out' voters would love the government.

The Building industry would be kickstarted.

The coalition would have put the people's interest's above the banksters and won the moral high ground over Labour.

Whats stopping them from doing this? Its not really any more complicated than the [Rip off] shared ownership schemes the government have been unsuccesfully peddling for years.

[Any agreement would also have to entail relaxed planning, for those who wanted to build Eco/Straw bale/Cob style houses. Which have been built in the UK for centuries. And are cheaper to construct]

Giving/Selling Cheap Land to FTB should be more politically acceptable to the government than a 50% + House Price Crash occuring.

[There are historical presidents for states giving away land, in a number countries]

Therefore it might be an idea, instead of constantly calling for lower house prices, which has gotten us nowhere, for years, to define a scheme, and all get behind it.

Like the one I outlined above. Now would be the perfect time to consider it. Whilst they own Lloyds, who hold huge residential land banks.

Edited by Dan1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the banks would see it as a full on attack against them from the government.

shareholders would leave, share prices would tumble as their "assetts" are being strippped

or the bank would have to over pay for the land with tax payer money

then greed would kick in and price fixing from the builders,

the construction would also be sub par, lower than what they got up to in the boom, citing price of labour/materials etc

then greed from the government as they would try and turn a proffit on these properties

mortgage companies would then rate these properties as higher risk/higher IR's to claim back revenue on lost assets

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the banks would see it as a full on attack against them from the government.

1.] shareholders would leave, share prices would tumble as their "assetts" are being strippped

2.] or the bank would have to over pay for the land with tax payer money

3.] then greed would kick in and price fixing from the builders, the construction would also be sub par, lower than what they got up to in the boom, citing price of labour/materials etc

4.] then greed from the government as they would try and turn a proffit on these properties

It would not affect 'The Banks.' It would affect one State Owned Bank.

1. I dont see that as an issue. Lloyds/HBOS SP has already been completely decimated. Its a state owned bank. In fact, I think this solution would cause considerably less upset amongst Lloyds shareholders than the governments intentions to 'give away' Lloyds shares for free anyway...Especially If all the mortgages for the plots had to be via Lloyds, via the trust. [Long term Lloyds would be onto a winner.]

2.] Whats the mark to market value of the land? No-one knows. Lloyds will not release this data. If they can claim an accurate value themselves. And they cannot sell it anyway.

3.] That would have to be tightly controlled. And planning would have to be relaxed. And new designs and ideas would have to be introduced. [Personally I would be interested in something like a strawbale/Cob house. Something which is much cheaper to construct.]

4.] That's the whole idea. It would spread the pain of deficit reduction more equally, whilst still letting the air gradually out of the housing bubble. The gov's intention would not be to turn a profit......Hence setting up a Development Trust. The Coalition would get a lot of voters back on side. Two million Priced out of Housing. And it would not affect homeowners as much as an outright crash would. [it would also mean FTB are not working for nothing for another decade. No capital.] And it would save the inevitable bloodshed which should occur, within a few years, if house prices are not brought back to affordable levels.

Edited by Dan1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Solution is easy.....Down tools permanant general strike.

You see bonds are based on fiat and labour of the future. If there is no labour and or people withold it then the bonds become worthless. Interest rates rise to make them more attractive until they become junk.

The government forces will then come out inforce and exterminate a town to get people back to work, which will back fire as more people down tools.

The only way to keep the promises is to turn on the printers. UK goes into hyperinflation... which makes Zimbabwe look mild. All the VIs are wiped out completely and the system is reset back to 0. All the things people voted for which you were handed the bills is reneged on and thus it again is set to zero. Thus leveling the playing field.

I get to hunt the local population for a few months, then somebody will press the reset button and introduce a new fiat currency... but there will be a hell of a lot less claims on it than with the £.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok Ken. I understand your argument. [Down tools] The markets will sort it for us. Hope they do....

I just think that Whilst the Government holds such a stake in Lloyd's they have a unique opportunity.

Its not really that radical either when you think about it.

It would re-ddress the huge yawning chasm between those who own property and those who do not, in a much more democratic fashion than is being done at the moment.

Edited by Dan1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

**The truth is that they do have options available to them, to spread the deficit fairly, and allow FTB to work and pay for a house, if they really wanted to. There are workable ideas. Like the one above. They obviously just do not want to. They are happy to carry on stealing from us. And then lying to us.

After over a decade of watching house prices rise out of our reach year after year, I am so utterly sick of it. Working for nothing. No Capital. Forced to pay for other peoples houses, mortgages and retirements.

I feel like burning down the banks. And MP's houses. The B@5tards have pushed us too far.

Without the bailouts house prices would have crashed by over 50% which would merely have returned them to their long term historic average affordability. Instead they want us as slaves. We have to do something about it. And when the sh1t finally does hit the fan, they will wish they had 'done the right thing' when they had a chance to do so.

Our politicians and Bankers really are gangsters. It is frankly an amazing truth to be faced with, or have to accept. But it really is true.****

Edited by Dan1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*Just updating this thread so I can stick it on my Sig.

If any government were serious about helping FTB, there are many many ways in which they could make houses affordable for us again.

One way would be to award FTB with cheap land.

State Owned Lloyds Banking Group have been left holding vast tracts of residential land banks.

What is to stop the Government *retaining these vast tracts of residential land from Lloyds and selling them to FTB for a vastly reduced rate?

Giving/Selling Cheap Land to FTB should be more politically acceptable to the government than a 50% + House Price Crash occuring.

[Everyone already knows that for houses to become affordable once again, a 50% + crash, must occur, but it seems they intend to draw it out over ten years. Stochastically speaking, the ten year cycle seems likely.]

[However that leaves FTB working for another decade for nothing. Which is completely unacceptable. That would be over 20 years working for nothing. No capital. Forced to pay off someone else's mortgage and retirement. Already forced to waste tens upon tens of thousands in wasted rent. ]

[There are historical precedents for states giving away land, or selling it cheaply, to their citizens, for different reasons, in a number of countries]

Now would be the perfect time to consider it. Whilst the government own a stake in Lloyds, who hold huge land banks.

-------------------------------------------------------------

The government could set up a Development Trust for First Time Buyer's. Allowing just One FTB to buy just one plot of land, from Lloyds Land bank, for a vastly reduced rate, [60% off current land values.]

With the caveat that each FTB must borrow from Lloyds, to build a house on their plot. The Trust could include a clause which states that FTB'er's cannot sell the land/house for ten years. And then only back to the Development Trust for a fair market value. The Development Trust must retain the land, to sell onto another FTB.

That way the land always remain's as 'affordable'

--------------------------------------------------------------

Consider:

It would spread the pain of deficit reduction more equally, whilst still letting the air gradually out of the housing bubble. [House Prices rose threefold over ten years]

The gov's intention must not be to turn a profit……[Hence setting up a Development Trust.]

In one fell swoop the Coalition would win a lot of voters back on side. And it would not affect homeowners as much as an outright crash would.

Lloyds cannot sell their land anyway. This solution would be much 'fairer' and preferable to the Lloyds shareholders, than governments plans to give away Lloyds shares for free. Lloyds could supply the mortgages for all the plots, via the trust, to FTB's.

Lloyds, in defiance of the monopolies commission, hold over 33% of UK mortgages.

Instead of giving away Lloyds shares to everyone, the government should be seeking to redress the balance in the housing market, by spreading the pain of deficit reduction more equally, between those who own property and those who do not.

[Considering the staggering threefold increase in house prices over ten years, because of blatant fraud and VI theft.]

Surely this would be a much Fairer democratic balance, and a more equal spread of deficit reduction, than stealing FTB money to bail out Lloyds?

[FTB, are paying to keep 'everyone else's' property massively overinflated, ensuring FTB'ers can never afford their own property, and remain in 'debt slavery'. Why should the people who do not own property be forced to pay to keep Lloyds properties massively overinflated? Its ridiculous and criminal]

Especially considering it was systemic fraud which fuelled high house prices for over ten years.

Whats stopping the government from doing this?

[Any agreement would also have to entail relaxed planning, for those who wanted to build Eco/Straw bale/Cob style houses. Which have been built in the UK for centuries. And are cheaper to construct]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Simply calling for lower prices, has gotten FTB's nowhere, for years. But we know that the government could help FTB if they really wanted to.

If they do not. We should accept that they have decided to place us in debt slavery.

If they do not have a plan to help us, we should acknowledge that their plan is to hurt us.

And their trick is to pretend that there is nothing they can do, except show fake sympathy at the plight of FTB

In which case, riots and petrol bombs should ensue. It's not us at fault. It is the government.

Another ten years forced to work for nothing, as a direct consequence of government sponsored theft and fraud, would be like a life sentence.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The Government is our enemy.

*Just updating this thread so I can stick it on my Sig.

Edited by Dan1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow! Land seizures to back borrowing!

Is it 18th century france again aleady?

I would'nt expect anything else from you Injin.

*Seize-ing edited to Retaining.

Edited by Dan1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dont the govt shares in Lloyds/ RBS have zero voting rights, other than being able to be sold/bought.

The day that govt actually changes laws to assist people is the day hell freezes over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just build on agricultural land.

Get together with a group of 10 and buy 100 acres should be possible for around £50k each. Break it into 10 seperate parcels of land.

Away from view of any roads, in the centre of the land, build 10 off grid nice family houses which are entirely self sufficient.

When eventually reported for the crime of building shelters to live in on your own land that don't cause problems for anyone else fight it tooth and nail.

When eventually evicted simply reconstruct the houses on another parcel of your groups land.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Everyone already knows that for houses to become affordable once again, a 50% + crash, must occur, but it seems they intend to draw it out over ten years. Stochastically speaking, the ten year cycle seems likely.]

[However that leaves FTB working for another decade for nothing. Which is completely unacceptable. That would be over 20 years working for nothing. No capital. Forced to pay off someone else's mortgage and retirement. Already forced to waste tens upon tens of thousands in wasted rent. ]

I think it would be easier to just let prices fall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Post your theoretical solutions:

[They could even include a clause which states that FTB'er's cannot sell the land/house for ten years.

And then only back to the Development Trust for a fair market value.

And that the Development Trust must retain the land, to sell onto another FTB.

That way the land always remain's as 'affordable']

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And there is the flaw in this.

By the FTB only ever being able to sell back to the Development trust at a fair market value ( would that be a fixed % of the open market ) the FTB will still not have the means to join the open market and pay open market rates for their next house they would after owning this first house for ten years still be priced out. Also who wants to buy a house that they cannot sell for ten years , they might want/ need to sell .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And there is the flaw in this.

By the FTB only ever being able to sell back to the Development trust at a fair market value the FTB will still not have the means to join the open market and pay open market rates for their next house

No Miko. You have not spotted some obvious glaring flaw.

I think you must have speed read it?

THERE ARE SOLUTIONS FOR FIRST TIME BUYERS

It's a simple enough concept. Sell FTB land cheaply. [but do not allow FTB to sell it onto anyone else.]

As the government gradually deflate's the housing bubble over the next decade, to become affordable once again, the prices of the trust's house's will gradually meet them.

[Hence FTB cannot sell for ten years, for a 'quick profit'.]

Its a win win solution for the government

[Of Course FTB would all prefer a 50%+ crash this year or next year...Whereas our disgusting thieving government and banks, are attempting to engineer a soft bottom in housing hoping, that FTB will all jump in after a measly 35% drop.]

Edited by Dan1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Put interest rates up

Politically inexpedient. I would love to believe that the markets will rectify the situation themselves if left alone. But the MPC and merv, are dead set against it.

Raising Capital Gains Tax to the same level as income tax, and raising Interest Rates, was the litmus test as to whether the government was committed to tax changes that spread the pain of deficit reduction fairly. Same as happened under Thatcher.

They have completely failed to do this.

The Coalition have specifically stated that they want house prices kept at present unaffordable levels. As do Merv, MPC etc.

The Lib Dems, Tories and Labour, all want you to remain their debt slave bitch.

Edited by Dan1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Politically inexpedient.

Raising Capital Gains Tax to the same level as income tax, and raising Interest Rates, was the litmus test as to whether the government was committed to tax changes that spread the pain of deficit reduction fairly. Same as happened under Thatcher.

They have completely failed to do this.

The Coalition have specifically stated that they want house prices kept at present unaffordable levels.

Vince and Grant want you to remain their debt slave bitch.

Yeah - I know it aint gonna happen but I thought we were just blue sky thinking here - thought we had the white-board out and ties loosened

BTW - "Office Space" - good film

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah - I know it aint gonna happen but I thought we were just blue sky thinking here - thought we had the white-board out and ties loosened

BTW - "Office Space" - good film

Ok mate.

Yeh. Im gonna have to update my link. I think Milton would have flipped sooner if he had been priced out as long as we have.

Edited by Dan1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No Miko. You have not spotted some obvious glaring flaw.

I think you must have speed read it?

THERE ARE SOLUTIONS FOR FIRST TIME BUYERS

It's a simple enough concept. Sell FTB land cheaply. [but do not allow FTB to sell it onto anyone else.]

As the government gradually deflate's the housing bubble over the next decade, to become affordable once again, the prices of the trust's house's will gradually meet them.

[Hence FTB cannot sell for ten years, for a 'quick profit'.]

Its a win win solution for the government

[Of Course FTB would all prefer a 50%+ crash this year or next year...Whereas our disgusting thieving government and banks, are attempting to engineer a soft bottom in housing hoping, that FTB will all jump in after a measly 35% drop.]

No I read the whole thing Dan.

Now you contridict your concept. If property does fall there will be no need to force the FTB to sell the property back at a fair price ( still not declared what that would be yet )

Either the FTB can sell on the open market at some point and hence be able to pay the going rate when they buy their second home whether the market has gone down , up or stayed the same or they will still be priced out if they have to re sell at a fixed price. Also there is still the point of not being able to sell for ten years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No I read the whole thing Dan.

Now you contridict your concept. If property does fall there will be no need to force the FTB to sell the property back at a fair price ( still not declared what that would be yet )

Either the FTB can sell on the open market at some point and hence be able to pay the going rate when they buy their second home whether the market has gone down , up or stayed the same or they will still be priced out if they have to re sell at a fixed price. Also there is still the point of not being able to sell for ten years.

Ok, lets say it takes ten years for the government to deflate' the housing bubble. So that in ten years time, house prices have dropped by 50%

--------------------------------------------------------------

Development Trust Land: £200k

House: £50k

Present Open Market Value: £250k

FTB pays a 60% reduction on the land value: Borrows £130k from Lloyds. [£80k for land £50k for house.]

House Prices drop by 50% over 10 years.

So that £250k house is now only worth £125k

Tenth year, the Trust pays the FTB the going market rate, 'or' allows the FTB to sell on the open market for the going rate of £125-£130k

[ I can see your point Miko. You are right that as soon as houses become affordable once again, there would be no real point in keeping the development trust going.....]

Aside from that it would seem a viable idea.

Edited by Dan1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do Lloyds even have a Landbank?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do Lloyds even have a Landbank?

Lloyds have vast tracts of residential and commercial landbanks Bloo. Which they cannot sell.

[Lloyds could however, be smart, and sign up hundreds of thousands of FTBs, for 25 year plus mortgages....One 'development trust' plot, for each FTB]

Edited by Dan1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, lets say it takes ten years for the government to deflate' the housing bubble. So that in ten years time, house prices have dropped by 50%

--------------------------------------------------------------

[Lloyds] Development Trust Land: £200k

House: £50k

Present Open Market Value: £250k

FTB pays a 60% reduction on the land value: Borrows £130k from Lloyds. [£80k for land £50k for house.]

House Prices drop by 50% over 10 years.

So that £250k house is now only worth £125k

Tenth year, the Trust pays the FTB the going market rate, 'or' allows the FTB to sell on the open market for the going rate of £125-£130k

[ I can see your point Miko. You are right that as soon as houses become affordable once again, there would be no real point in keeping the development trust going.....]

Aside from that it would seem a viable idea.

If houses become affordable again yes there would be no real point in keeping the development trust going . If they don't then anyone who buys one now and is forced to sell it back at a reduced price in ten years will still be priced out of the housing market.

Tho only solution I can see to the housing problem is to build enough houses both private and rented while limiting the mortgage debts that people are allowed to take on.

We have the land , the skills , the bricks , the need . What we do not have is the WANT the VI's do not want cheap housing .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lloyds have vast tracts of residential and commercial landbanks Bloo. Which they cannot sell.

thats interesting...why are they in hard assets like this?..bit illiquid for a bank that might need cash sharpish...even ignoring the 2007 crunch....surely the function of a good bank is to match capital with wealth creators...not store up speculative chunks of the UK.

Are you sure its not pension funds they run that have these tracts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now