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Debt Based Monetary System Question

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So does that mean a defensive war is OK?

No, of course not.

1. There is no such thing as war, just individuals making attacks or not.

2. Attacking others is always wrong.

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No, of course not.

1. There is no such thing as war, just individuals making attacks or not.

2. Attacking others is always wrong.

I am confused now. If a gang goes after my wife it is ok to find another gang to help me to stop them. But if a "gang" with guns goes after my land (property) I should not try to find a "gang" to help me fend them off. right?

The bad "gang" after my property is the offensive army. The responding "gang" trying to stop the bad gang is the defensive army. The whole theater is a war (just a label).

What do you say?

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I am confused now. If a gang goes after my wife it is ok to find another gang to help me to stop them. But if a "gang" with guns goes after my land (property) I should not try to find a "gang" to help me fend them off. right?

First of all there are no gangs. Secondly, there is no such thing as land. You can own property - that is real made stuff but you cannot own land as it's a delusion*

The bad "gang" after my property is the offensive army. The responding "gang" trying to stop the bad gang is the defensive army. The whole theater is a war (just a label).

What do you say?

I say you've still not really understood what I am saying. There are no gangs, no collectives, it's a perception error on your part. A war (as far as I understand it) involves attacking people, not defence.

*There aren't invisible lines around you which need defending, if you think there are you need psychiatric help. Go outside and check if you like, theres nothing there though.

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First of all there are no gangs. Secondly, there is no such thing as land. You can own property - that is real made stuff but you cannot own land as it's a delusion*

I say you've still not really understood what I am saying. There are no gangs, no collectives, it's a perception error on your part. A war (as far as I understand it) involves attacking people, not defence.

*There aren't invisible lines around you which need defending, if you think there are you need psychiatric help. Go outside and check if you like, theres nothing there though.

Well. Sometimes we want made-up lines to help manage our affairs better. Suppose a small town had the "bubonic plague" or something extremely communicable. It would be a good idea to isolate them (help them but isolate them). And even stop one of the infected ones from going to another town (my town).

What do you think?

Mansooor

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Well. Sometimes we want made-up lines to help manage our affairs better.

You can want it all day long, they don't exist. Reality > your whims.

Suppose a small town had the "bubonic plague" or something extremely communicable. It would be a good idea to isolate them (help them but isolate them). And even stop one of the infected ones from going to another town (my town).

What do you think?

Mansooor

Sure, great idea. But recognise

1. it's arbitary, made up, fictional

2. it's arbitary, made up, fictional

3. it's arbitary, made up, fictional

4. it's arbitary, made up, fictional

5. Iy's a very bad idea to attack people based on fictions. See religion/nationalism etc

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You can want it all day long, they don't exist. Reality > your whims.

Sure, great idea. But recognise

1. it's arbitary, made up, fictional

2. it's arbitary, made up, fictional

3. it's arbitary, made up, fictional

4. it's arbitary, made up, fictional

5. Iy's a very bad idea to attack people based on fictions. See religion/nationalism etc

I actually agree with a lot of what you say. Religion/nationalism has mosty been used in the past to divide and inflict needless violence and yes I do realize how all this relates to money and the state and banking (taxation, legal tender laws, etc.).

So, what you are saying is there should be no laws, no police, no military, no borders. Just individuals responding to other individuals' behaviors.

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Anyway why are we talking about these concepts in the first place as regards debt and banking?

Well, the foundations of banking are on th ecollective. Money is held collectively, debts are charged to the community collectively, taxes are levied collectively.

However, if you note the connection metaphor that scepticus uses something interesting arises -

The pretence of community, of nationality can only be fostered by the mandating of types of money over an area. First comes the money, which makes the connections, which creates the pretense of a nation or community and allows some to take from others under the guise of "being all in it together."

if you ever deal with these parasites from the PoV of getting rid of them, you will swiftly see they don't talk much about law, but about "what will people think" and a form of debt based morality.

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I actually agree with a lot of what you say.

it's not a question of agreement. What I say is true. it's true if you agree, disagree, care, don't care, think about it, don#'t think about it.

Religion/nationalism has mosty been used in the past to divide and inflict needless violence and yes I do realize how all this relates to money and the state and banking (taxation, legal tender laws, etc.).

So, what you are saying is there should be no laws, no police, no military, no borders. Just individuals responding to other individuals' behaviors.

There should be no violence. That taking this position invalidates borders, military, police and law is just one of those things, but they are a subset of a moral principle.

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Anyway why are we talking about these concepts in the first place as regards debt and banking?

Well, the foundations of banking are on th ecollective. Money is held collectively, debts are charged to the community collectively, taxes are levied collectively.

However, if you note the connection metaphor that scepticus uses something interesting arises -

The pretence of community, of nationality can only be fostered by the mandating of types of money over an area. First comes the money, which makes the connections, which creates the pretense of a nation or community and allows some to take from others under the guise of "being all in it together."

if you ever deal with these parasites from the PoV of getting rid of them, you will swiftly see they don't talk much about law, but about "what will people think" and a form of debt based morality.

So what would you like to see instead? Please explain.

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it's not a question of agreement. What I say is true. it's true if you agree, disagree, care, don't care, think about it, don#'t think about it.

It is good to have agreement if truth exists. It is good to converge on truth. Therefore promoting truth is good and we want others to agree with us on truth.

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What do you replace a fire with?

Just pour water over it or let it just burn out (take the fuel away from it).

Remove legal tender laws and forced taxation to start with. Get rid of passports and borders.

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It is good to have agreement if truth exists. It is good to converge on truth. Therefore promoting truth is good and we want others to agree with us on truth.

Why?

Agreement isn't needed. If people disagree they are just wrong.

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Why?

Agreement isn't needed. If people disagree they are just wrong.

Be cool man. We don't NEED to be conversing here on HPC either. But we want to, right?

Life is about truth and spreading the truth. The spreading part is optional but feels good.

Mansoor

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Be cool man. We don't NEED to be conversing here on HPC either. But we want to, right?

Life is about truth and spreading the truth. The spreading part is optional but feels good.

Mansoor

Given this is a conversation at least partly about morality when you say "good" it's something i'm supposed to be constantly doing. if you just meant it gives you a mild happy, you crack on. :)

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Given this is a conversation at least partly about morality when you say "good" it's something i'm supposed to be constantly doing. if you just meant it gives you a mild happy, you crack on. :)

Well. I am working toward an entry into heaven (yes, i believe in all that jazz). A different kind of "crank on". But you are right. Just wanted to clarify.

Mansoor

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Well. I am working toward an entry into heaven (yes, i believe in all that jazz). A different kind of "crank on". But you are right. Just wanted to clarify.

Mansoor

I'm sorry to hear that. Hope you lose your faith before it's too late.

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I'll have a shufti.

:)

Ah, i've actually got that book, it's a very good read.

The answer to the question I do not know. Me, I am fully here.

Edit - I will say this as an ex hypnotist for hire, your conscious mind decides very little.

Edited by Injin

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Ah, i've actually got that book, it's a very good read.

The answer to the question I do not know. Me, I am fully here.

Edit - I will say this as an ex hypnotist for hire, your conscious mind decides very little.

So, you don't think of the west as being more and more left minded (in McGhilchrist sense) as time has gone on?

You basically disagree with him. correct?

Mansoor

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So, you don't think of the west as being more and more left minded (in McGhilchrist sense) as time has gone on?

You basically disagree with him. correct?

Mansoor

Yep.

The west has become more and more dissosiated as time has passed. Most people are in trances most of the time. Most of the rationality has gone from popular culture at this point as well.

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Yep.

The west has become more and more dissosiated as time has passed. Most people are in trances most of the time. Most of the rationality has gone from popular culture at this point as well.

what is the remedy?

Mansoor

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