4439 replies to this topic

[hotairmail]

I do tell my sons to "be a man" quite often.

I'm sure everyone has somewhat different ideas about what qualities are associated with "manliness". What it means to "be a man" could really be a whole sub-forum of its own. I think partly it is about toughening up to minor physical and emotional pain, and it is a question of degree as to whether that becomes a positive or negative quality. Mostly in my mind, it is about self-confidence, self-reliance and personal responsibility.

 

My wife (and she's not unusual in this) likes to use the phrase "time to man-up" simply to mean do as she wants. So I sometimes have to explain that "being a man" isn't about blindly doing what someone else wants you to.
 

 

 

Very good.

 

Of course girls don't feel physical pain as they are primed for childbirth. So perhaps young boys ought to be told to "girl up".

[paulokes]

 
Aren't 80% of suicides men?
 

Funnily enough I am in a training course as we speak...Understanding Self Harm and Suicide so we're talking about the very thing.

I bbelieve statistically women are more likely to self harm,men are more likely to 'succesfully' commit suicide. I wonder what the reasons are for that?

P

[The Masked Tulip]

Funnily enough I am in a training course as we speak...Understanding Self Harm and Suicide so we're talking about the very thing.

I bbelieve statistically women are more likely to self harm,men are more likely to 'succesfully' commit suicide. I wonder what the reasons are for that?

P

 

 

Is one a cry for attention and the other a cry for help - subtle but important difference? Let me know what your group thinks.

[crashmonitor]

 

 

Very good.

 

Of course girls don't feel physical pain as they are primed for childbirth. So perhaps young boys ought to be told to "girl up".

I think it refers to internal pain including sickness.

 

My own take on this is that men don't feel external pain from falls and fights like women. I am often confused by the fact women seem to cry out at the slightest knock which I wouldn't even register

[The Masked Tulip]

I think it refers to internal pain including sickness.

 

My own take on this is that men don't feel external pain from falls and fights like women. I am often confused by the fact women seem to cry out at the slightest knock which I wouldn't even register

 

 

It stems from childhood when little girls learn, quickly, that if they scream and cry that they will get attention. It is ingrained in women as adults.

 

It is a well known child experiment where you sit a mother and her child on the floor facing one another. You then place some kind of barrier - a piece of card, a big towel, whatever - between the mother and child so that the child cannot see the mother. Little boys will try to crawl over or around or under the barrier to get to their mum. Little girls just sit there and scream/cry.

 

From early on little girls learn that playing the crying/screaming card gets them what they want. Even as women this is very much part of who they are.

 

Whether this is nature/evolution, genetics or nuture is open to debate.

[mikthe20]

 

Whilst a woman will find the caring and nurturing she found in her father in her chosen male partner, a man will never find the selfless love from his mother in a woman.  Females seeking a partner view male emotional vulnerability as a weakness, so to appear emotional and to talk about one's feelings, in the mating game, is fairly pointless.

A very profound post. I think however that there's a trend here. I believe that this increase in entitled women (and other psychological factors) is actually leading to them become less caring, less nurturing and less selfless mothers. It is logical for that to happen after all if these trends continue.

[corevalue]

John Steinbeck nailed what "being a man" meant in the Grapes of Wrath. Resilience, stoicism, determination, keeping one's emotions in control.

 

 

The people came out of their houses and smelled the hot stinging air and covered
their noses from it. And the children came out of the houses, but they did not run or
shout as they would have done after a rain. Men stood by their fences and looked at the
ruined corn, drying fast now, only a little green showing through the film of dust. The
men were silent and they did not move often. And the women came out of the houses
to stand beside their men—to feel whether this time the men would break. The women
studied the men's faces secretly, for the corn could go, as long as something else
remained. The children stood near by, drawing figures in the dust with bare toes, and
the children sent exploring senses out to see whether men and women would break.
The children peeked at the faces of the men and women, and then drew careful lines in
the dust with their toes. Horses came to the watering troughs and nuzzled the water to
clear the surface dust. After a while the faces of the watching men lost their bemused
perplexity and became hard and angry and resistant. Then the women knew that they
were safe and that there was no break. Then they asked, What'll we do? And the men
replied, I don't know. But it was all right. The women knew it was all right, and the
watching children knew it was all right. Women and children knew deep in themselves
that no misfortune was too great to bear if their men were whole.

[Voice of Reason]

John Steinbeck nailed what "being a man" meant in the Grapes of Wrath. Resilience, stoicism, determination, keeping one's emotions in control.

 

 

Sure, women may have looked for that in their men once. But that was before women could up and leave, take the kids, and be entitled to tax credits, housing benefit and maintenance.

[eight]

 

Sure, women may have looked for that in their men once. But that was before women could up and leave, take the kids, and be entitled to tax credits, housing benefit and maintenance.

 

"Steinbeck rendered irrelevant in tax credits shocker"....

[sPinwheel]

Funnily enough I am in a training course as we speak...Understanding Self Harm and Suicide so we're talking about the very thing.

I bbelieve statistically women are more likely to self harm,men are more likely to 'succesfully' commit suicide. I wonder what the reasons are for that?

P

As George Carlin said. Men are better at it.

[Northerner]

Never did like that song ...

 

[R K]

After a while the faces of the watching men lost their bemused
perplexity and became hard and angry and resistant. Then the women knew that they
were safe and that there was no break. Then they asked, What'll we do? And the men
replied, 

 

Sell other peoples work on the internet for $197 a pop, buy a plane and a new Crossfire and become an MP.

[paulokes]

 
 
Is one a cry for attention and the other a cry for help - subtle but important difference? Let me know what your group thinks.

What came across very very clearly was the unusefulness of looking at Self Harm, generally, as attention-seeking. Whilst it might look exactly like that from the outside most 'practitioners' seem to report lots of reasons, attention seeking is (for them) very far down the list. I struggle with the idea myself but it is almost universally seen as a Functional behaviour...coping strategy, tool for survival even.

I Believe the apt quote was something like "If I wanted attention, I would take my clothes off and walk down the street". I suppose there are definitely more effective, and less damaging ways to garner attention. I have experienced it first hand though and, sorry to say,it felt very manipulative.

Couple of interesting facts re: suicide. Women are twice as likely to attempt it,Men are 3 times more likely to actually commit suicide. Theres some interesting maths to be done there:)

P

Edited by paulokes, 23 March 2015 - 04:42 PM.

[chronyx]

I suggest reading The Rational Male, and the second book Preventative Medicine, by Rollo Tomassi

[The Masked Tulip]

I suggest reading The Rational Male, and the second book Preventative Medicine, by Rollo Tomassi

 

 

Was he in LA Confidential?