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General Congreve

Where Do You Stand?

66 posts in this topic

[quote name='abharrisson' post='2015548' date='Jul 16 2009, 03:38 PM']Whatever you call it , its the same as me buying plasma screen now today becasue I think they are going to go up in price............... personally I have no issue at all with anyone waiting for the bottom (I am too) and I have no issue at all with anyione openly declaring their wish and desire to profit from property when it reaches bottom... where I have an issue is with those self-same people who have been on a mission to kick BTL landlords who by the by also wanted to profit from property.[/quote]

So, there we have it. HPCers by and large are a pretty evil bunch, and many, unlike myself who is happy to admit his evil ways, are also hyporcrites, sl@gging of today's BTLers while waiting to profit from the misery of others themselves. Edited by General Congreve

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[quote name='General Congreve' post='2015417' date='Jul 16 2009, 02:46 PM']Probably using the proceeds of my gold investment to buy a large house with a moat and a turret with a machine gun. Then spending my days mowing down the bitter, starving, baying mob on the other side of the moat who have transferred their perceived paper wealth to me through their own stupidity.[/quote]
Not pottering in the garden or playing golf, then ;)

In the circumstance you describe, the mob might "retire" you sooner than you imagine...

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[quote name='huw' post='2015593' date='Jul 16 2009, 03:56 PM']Not pottering in the garden or playing golf, then ;)

In the circumstance you describe, the mob might "retire" you sooner than you imagine...[/quote]

Just joking about the castle. What I actually intend to do is carry on as I am, with my £1500 car, modest house and general low profile. I'll easily blend in with the dispossessed while laughing heartily behind their backs :lol: :lol: :lol: Edited by General Congreve

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[quote name='abharrisson' post='2015548' date='Jul 16 2009, 03:38 PM']Whatever you call it , its the same as me buying plasma screen now today becasue I think they are going to go up in price............... personally I have no issue at all with anyone waiting for the bottom (I am too) and I have no issue at all with anyione openly declaring their wish and desire to profit from property when it reaches bottom... where I have an issue is with those self-same people who have been on a mission to kick BTL landlords who by the by also wanted to profit from property.[/quote]

Understood. Yes, put like that I agree totally.

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[quote name='General Congreve' post='2015372' date='Jul 16 2009, 02:24 PM']Well, it seems after 34 votes, which I think is a reasonable sample size considering the number of active HPCers, the evil ones out number the softies by very nearly 2 to 1.

So, like a bunch of modern day highwaymen mercilessly torturing their victims, before violently slitting their throats and making off with the loot, the mawkish EVIL ONES have it.

Onward to the bottom of the crash and the spoils it may bring!!![/quote]
A economy built on consumption and credit! it must surely end in tears, while the future is/has being morgaged. There will be rewards for the prudent, how ever there are down sides for the comming poverty. There is nothing good socialy to come, this is just a small sample of what you can expect: increased crime, resentment, your nice new car vandalized by some Chav because he knows he will never own one and resents the car and you. Arsen for the same reason. Stealing : will rise 10 fold, and if things get really bad Kidnapings. Yes as times get rotten so do the ranks close. race attacks will be ongoing with people driven from estates.
The government has set the stage for a really hard time for many. I dont think it was done out of malice but out of a missplaced belief in the good in people. History has shown people need some one to blame for there missfortune.
I hope to gain from the comming crash and have arranged my finances to do so, however I have no missconseptions about the sorrow it will bring.

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[quote name='General Congreve' post='2015577' date='Jul 16 2009, 03:48 PM']So, there we have it. HPCers by and large are a pretty evil bunch, and many, unlike myself who is happy to admit his evil ways, are also hyporcrites, sl@gging of today's BTLers while waiting to profit from the misery of others themselves.[/quote]

Hardly.

The majority of posters on here want one house cheap. To live in.

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[quote name='blue skies' post='2018444' date='Jul 18 2009, 04:50 AM']A economy built on consumption and credit! it must surely end in tears, while the future is/has being morgaged. There will be rewards for the prudent, how ever there are down sides for the comming poverty. There is nothing good socialy to come, this is just a small sample of what you can expect: increased crime, resentment, your nice new car vandalized by some Chav because he knows he will never own one and resents the car and you. Arsen for the same reason. Stealing : will rise 10 fold, and if things get really bad Kidnapings. Yes as times get rotten so do the ranks close. race attacks will be ongoing with people driven from estates.
The government has set the stage for a really hard time for many. I dont think it was done out of malice but out of a missplaced belief in the good in people. History has shown people need some one to blame for there missfortune.
I hope to gain from the comming crash and have arranged my finances to do so, however I have no missconseptions about the sorrow it will bring.[/quote]

A good point on crime and resentment of relative wealth. Basically don't have a nice car or live in a stupidly big and remote country house. Your chances of being a victim of violent crime are increased hugely if you live in the middle of nowhere, as there's no one to hear you scream.

Keep your loot hidden from everyone, the burgeoning criminal underclass and the government alike, and blend into the impoverished masses.

Personally my car is not worth more than 1500 quid, my house is very modest size, I never wear a watch, let alone a fancy one and my mobile is 3 years old. And that's the way I intend to keep things when the depression has really hit home and I cash in my gold reserves for mucho cashola. 'Stealth Wealth' is the way forward my friends.

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[quote name='Frank Hovis' post='2018467' date='Jul 18 2009, 06:56 AM']Hardly.

The majority of posters on here want one house cheap. To live in.[/quote]

Did you look at the poll results Frank?

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[quote name='General Congreve' post='2020620' date='Jul 19 2009, 01:03 PM']Did you look at the poll results Frank?[/quote]

Yes, we obviously interpret them differently your Generality.

I took the options to mean an increasing severity of HPC so that the second option was 30%-40% and the third 40%-60% so that a cash buyer who saw the crash coming could buy a very cheap house for cash in 2012 and so have very low lifetime housing costs and retire early.

"Clean up" meaning buy dirt cheap a house that somebody had paid a small fortune for in 2007.

You're taking "clean up" to mean that HPCers are all frustrated BTLers who missed out and are itching for further falls so they can buy a multiple property portfolio. I'm sure that is very much not true for the majority on this site.

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[quote name='Frank Hovis' post='2020798' date='Jul 19 2009, 02:36 PM']Yes, we obviously interpret them differently your Generality.

I took the options to mean an increasing severity of HPC so that the second option was 30%-40% and the third 40%-60% so that a cash buyer who saw the crash coming could buy a very cheap house for cash in 2012 and so have very low lifetime housing costs and retire early.

"Clean up" meaning buy dirt cheap a house that somebody had paid a small fortune for in 2007.

You're taking "clean up" to mean that HPCers are all frustrated BTLers who missed out and are itching for further falls so they can buy a multiple property portfolio. I'm sure that is very much not true for the majority on this site.[/quote]

I wasn't suggesting people on here were frustrated BTLers. I was just trying to gauge whether people would be happy to capitalise on depressed property prices to set up their own BTL empire should the opportunity arise. BTLing isn't the only way HPCers can capitalise either. There is also the route of using savings to buy gold bullion with a view to cashing in when the currencies of indebted western nations inevitably collapse in the coming months/years. Edited by General Congreve

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[quote name='General Congreve' post='2021347' date='Jul 19 2009, 07:46 PM']I wasn't suggesting people on here were frustrated BTLers. I was just trying to gauge whether people would be happy to capitalise on depressed property prices to set up their own BTL empire should the opportunity arise. BTLing isn't the only way HPCers can capitalise either. There is also the route of using savings to buy gold bullion with a view to cashing in when the currencies of indebted western nations inevitably collapse in the coming months/years.[/quote]

Makes sense. Don't see that that is a bad thing though.

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[quote name='Frank Hovis' post='2021359' date='Jul 19 2009, 07:52 PM']Makes sense. Don't see that that is a bad thing though.[/quote]

Well, if someone can pick up a house for 40/50/60% off peak, it'll be because lots of people have become unemployed, and/or interest rates rise and force them to sell. It means that HPCers buying at a heavy discount will indirectly be happy at the expense of others.

I mean I could have put a 'get out option' whereby HPCers could vote they'd be over the moon about their dirt cheap new home, but would feel weeelly, weeelly sorry for the poor family who used to live there who are now living in a filthy bedsit. However, that option invalidates itself, because if you're wishing house prices down so you can get yourself a lovely pad at an affordable price, it goes hand in hand with knowing that for prices to drop hugely they'll be widespread misery for many.

So either you're happy to see people suffer, so you may gain, or you're a noble human being who would willingly forego the opportunity of an affordable home so that others may prosper. Obviously the world doesn't work like that, as HPCers have no direct control over house prices and a collapse looks inevitable anyway, so they'll just be picking up the pieces to their advantage. But it seems most on here are happily cheering on a collapse in house prices while sneering at the soon to be homeless idiots who bought near the peak. The results of my poll pretty much prove it. Edited by General Congreve

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[quote name='DrBubb' post='2021897' date='Jul 20 2009, 12:11 AM']"I'd rather the status quo of pre-2007 was maintained, I hate to see people lose everything they've worked for, even if it means life is harder for me in the long-run as a consequence."

Status Quo?

Do You mean "temporary bubble prices"?

Surely it should be clear that such prices were not sustainable without huge amounts of debt
being piled up. There arent enough suckers in the UK to keep those bogus economics alove[/quote]

Hello DrBubb, love your work BTW.

You are of course entirely correct, it would be impossible to maintain the 2007 situation, the over-leveraged market was destined to collapse. The question was entirely hypothetical, and was solely related to discovering HPCers attitude to the fortunes/misfortunes of others, relative to themselves.

Seems we're a selfish bunch of f*ckers!

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[quote name='General Congreve' post='2021949' date='Jul 20 2009, 12:58 AM']Well, if someone can pick up a house for 40/50/60% off peak, it'll be because lots of people have become unemployed, and/or interest rates rise and force them to sell. It means that HPCers buying at a heavy discount will indirectly be happy at the expense of others.

I mean I could have put a 'get out option' whereby HPCers could vote they'd be over the moon about their dirt cheap new home, but would feel weeelly, weeelly sorry for the poor family who used to live there who are now living in a filthy bedsit. However, that option invalidates itself, because if you're wishing house prices down so you can get yourself a lovely pad at an affordable price, it goes hand in hand with knowing that for prices to drop hugely they'll be widespread misery for many.

So either you're happy to see people suffer, so you may gain, or you're a noble human being who would willingly forego the opportunity of an affordable home so that others may prosper. Obviously the world doesn't work like that, as HPCers have no direct control over house prices and a collapse looks inevitable anyway, so they'll just be picking up the pieces to their advantage. But it seems most on here are happily cheering on a collapse in house prices while sneering at the soon to be homeless idiots who bought near the peak. The results of my poll pretty much prove it.[/quote]

Your "typical" scenario is again assuming a lot of forced sellers who are suffering. I am assuming some forced sellers (setting the prices at the margins) and a continued slide in prices as there are few buyers able to pay anything approaching 2007 prices (I would say "prepared" but people en masses aren't generally that clever).

In my direct experience - my neighbours - the houses have been owned by the same people for at least ten years (in some cases forty), no mewing. It will make no practical difference to them if their houses fall by 20%, 40% or 90%.

So yes there will be some people suffering, but it will be people who overpaid and overborrowed, especially BTLers, and as their complicity in the bubble caused a lot of suffering amongst people they priced out I am content to see the karma return to them.

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[quote name='Frank Hovis' post='2022067' date='Jul 20 2009, 05:52 AM']Your "typical" scenario is again assuming a lot of forced sellers who are suffering. I am assuming some forced sellers (setting the prices at the margins) and a continued slide in prices as there are few buyers able to pay anything approaching 2007 prices (I would say "prepared" but people en masses aren't generally that clever).

In my direct experience - my neighbours - the houses have been owned by the same people for at least ten years (in some cases forty), no mewing. It will make no practical difference to them if their houses fall by 20%, 40% or 90%.

So yes there will be some people suffering, but it will be people who overpaid and overborrowed, especially BTLers, and as their complicity in the bubble caused a lot of suffering amongst people they priced out I am content to see the karma return to them.[/quote]

If prices fall dramatically it will only be through forced selling on a wide scale at the lower price the market can tolerate. This is because, as you say, the money isn't out there to be lent to buyers to support current prices. The market will remain frozen and prices will be static, as is the current situation, until people's financial situation forces them to sell and take the loss on the chin. This will either occur when interest rates rise and/or unemployment continues to rise, causing more mortgage defaults. This is what many on here are gleefully waiting for, the forced sale (accompanied by the associated misery) of homes on a countrywide scale, so that they can gain a good deal. The poll results prove it and I have seen this widely seen this schadenfreude on HPC myself, as I'm sure you have.

BTW - I don't get your point about your neighbours. Sure they have plenty of equity to ride out a crash, good for them, many people do, myself included fortunately. It's the millions of others that don't that is the point, whose loss will be many a HPCers happy gain.

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[b]I'm happy to see a few unfortunate people at the margin suffer if it means a cheaper housing and a more stable economy. [/b]


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