Old Nis

Faq For Newbie Gold And Silverbugs

35 posts in this topic

FAQ for Newbie Gold/Silverbugs.

Most users of HPC forum have used these threads at some time, so I thought it might be a good idea to gather some of the information together for new or occasional users of the forum. Other forum users, please help me out by correcting my errors and adding to the sum total of knowledge.

Places to buy from:
I have bought from all of these; I can vouch for their honesty, speed and efficiency of service.

Baird & Co [url="http://www.goldline.co.uk/"]http://www.goldline.co.uk/[/url]
Chard [url="http://24carat.co.uk/index.html"]http://24carat.co.uk/index.html[/url]
Cookson Jewellery Supply [url="http://www.cooksongold.com/home.jsp"]http://www.cooksongold.com/home.jsp[/url]
Guernsey Mint [url="http://www.guernseymint.com/"]http://www.guernseymint.com/[/url]
Silver Exchange [url="http://www.silverexchange.co.uk/buying.html"]http://www.silverexchange.co.uk/buying.html[/url]
Weighton Coin [url="http://www.weightoncoin.co.uk/index.htm"]http://www.weightoncoin.co.uk/index.htm[/url]

Used by other forum members with no problems:
ATS Bullion Ltd [url="http://www.atsbullion.com/"]http://www.atsbullion.com/[/url]
CoinInvestDirect [url="http://www.coininvestdirect.com/main.php"]http://www.coininvestdirect.com/main.php[/url]
Gold Investments Ltd [url="http://www.goldinvestments.co.uk/"]http://www.goldinvestments.co.uk/[/url]

Legal Issues:
The current state of play seems to be that the following apply (DO NOT ACT ON THIS INFORMATION WITHOUT CONDUCTING YOUR OWN DUE DILIGENCE). The legal remarks below apply to the UK only but CHECK if in doubt. All information is believed correct as at 1-1-9.

Identification:
Bullion dealers may ask for ID from customers with whom they do not have a current trading relationship. This particularly applies to gold, because the other PMs are industrial metals and you are probably in any case unlikely to pay by cash for very large orders. Most dealers have slightly varying ways of compliance with the HMRC rules; just phone and ask.

(Thanks to forum member [b]John Mitchell[/b] for his interpretation on this one) Quote […this section is saying that THE FIRST TIME EVER that a bullion dealer does a deal of £5000 or more, he must notify Customs so that they can keep an eye on him - i.e. they want to be aware that he is a dealer and could therefore be a target for a customs investigation (as they love investigating bullion related companies) It is NOT saying that they must notify EVERY time they sell £5000. It is their process to register all bullion dealers and keep track of them. I hope this has dispelled the rumour once and for all? Ask Bairds what they do with their IDs and they will tell you - sweet f**k all apart from filing them away.] End quote.

Gold: Currently no VAT is payable on BULLION or INVESTMENT gold. Jewellery is treated differently. Sovereigns and Britannias are currently CGT-free in any quantity.

Silver, Palladium, Platinum: VAT is payable if bringing the metal into the UK/EU. If kept in Switzerland or Channel Islands, then no VAT is payable unless it comes out of their vaults and is brought into the UK. Baird and others may have bonded vaults where UNALLOCATED bullion can be stored VAT-free.

Confiscation Discussions:
See the following threads;
[url="http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=92200"]http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=92200[/url]

Storage Discussions:
See the following threads;
[url="http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=93366"]http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=93366[/url]
[url="http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=85460"]http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=85460[/url]
[url="http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=97049"]http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=97049[/url]

What-to-buy Discussions:
The forum consensus seems to be to get coins in gold and silver, then after you have some coins, get increasingly large bars in accordance with the size of your purse. Favourite coins are Krugers, Philharmonics, Nuggets and Sovereigns in gold, and the cheapest .999 fine silver rounds you can get your hands on, followed by 1kg bars, if buying silver. As of 1-1-9, these seem to be Silver Philharmonics, Maples or NWT 1-ounce rounds, unless you have a sneaky supplier of something else. Almost everyone suggests buying physical rather than paper gold or silver.

See the following threads;
[url="http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=94976"]http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=94976[/url]
[url="http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=90948"]http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=90948[/url]
[url="http://www.greenenergyinvestors.com/index.php?showtopic=3757"]http://www.greenenergyinvestors.com/index.php?showtopic=3757[/url]

Fakes and Forgery:
See the following threads;
[url="http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=100254"]http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...howtopic=100254[/url]
[url="http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=98634"]http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=98634[/url]

And if your question is not answered by this thread, feel free to post a new one; I am sure we will all be pleased to contribute.

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[quote name='Old Nis' post='1612993' date='Jan 24 2009, 12:40 PM']Bump - can moderators make this into a pinned topic for new users, please?[/quote]
Sorry about this, only just noticed your request.

First time I've ever pinned a thread too.

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[quote name=''Bart'' post='1741134' date='Mar 15 2009, 04:47 AM']Sorry about this, only just noticed your request.

First time I've ever pinned a thread too.[/quote]


Next stop is clicking "Yes" in the little box next to "Do you want to ban this user?".

Oh, the power of being a Moderator! :P

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[quote name='argentos' post='1742952' date='Mar 16 2009, 02:04 AM']Next stop is clicking "Yes" in the little box next to "Do you want to ban this user?".

Oh, the power of being a Moderator! :P[/quote]
You are [url="http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/288200.html"]John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton[/url] and I claim my £5. ;)

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[quote name=''Bart'' post='1743954' date='Mar 16 2009, 02:44 PM']You are [url="http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/288200.html"]John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton[/url] and I claim my £5. ;)[/quote]

That's the first time I've ever heard of the "John Emerich Edward Dalberg" part of the moniker. You deserve the cyberfiver!

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Another company I have purchased coins from in the past.
[url="http://www.airedalecoins.co.uk/"]Airedale Co[/url]

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Are the same rules applicable to silver? Should one buy silver in the form on Eagles or something similar?

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[quote name='d2thdr' post='1999951' date='Jul 8 2009, 04:55 PM']Are the same rules applicable to silver? Should one buy silver in the form on Eagles or something similar?[/quote]

Yes, in general terms. Silver coins are always going to carry a premium on purchase or sale that bars won't. The advantages of silver are that you can buy decent volumes for the same amount of money (compared with gold or platinum, for instance) and that silver is an industrial metal, so you get exposure to two separate price-increase drivers.

There are two points to consider with this. If you think we may ever use silver as money again (Zimbabwe scenario) then the coins are worth getting. If you want to trade purely on the expectation of a substantial increase in the industrial price, then bars give more for your money (Warren Buffet / Ted Butler scenario). I would buy some of each. The cheapest coins made of .925 silver are the proof crowns from Weighton Coin.

[url="http://weightoncoin.com/coins/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=47&zenid=8f234e658498ed53e0347d22dd5c2257"]http://weightoncoin.com/coins/index.php?ma...0347d22dd5c2257[/url]

Top grade coins such as Maples or Philharmonics are available from the same site. Eagles are not worth buying, the premium is too high on all sites that supply them. Phils are beautiful, and make fine (or should that be 999 fine?) presents for non-silverbugs.

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[quote name='d2thdr' post='2010268' date='Jul 14 2009, 11:27 AM']Can I/ should I buy silver inside an ISA/SIPP? Or cash is the best way of buying silver?[/quote]

Everyone on this forum that I have seen, has said get:-

1. Real physical metal.

2. If you really must have ETF or other paper silver, then make very sure the fund is DEFINITELY backed by 100% metal in the vault. Ideally a vault in Switzerland, although there are those that consider Jersey/Guernsey/IOM ok too. This would be mainly for the person who wishes to trade high volumes quickly to either swap gold for silver and back, or jump in during small dips/spikes, but I am sure there are other good reasons.

3. Shares are also ok if you are prepared to believe mine test-bore assays, or are buying into long-established mines, holding for medium to long term.

Whatever you do, remember the old sayings about values can go up or down, and DYODD. I got some good deals in gold and silver; I got bitten in Palladium, though...

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[quote name='Old Nis' date='27 September 2009 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1254077967' post='2166112']
<!--quoteo(post=2010268:date=Jul 14 2009, 11:27 AM:name=d2thdr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (d2thdr @ Jul 14 2009, 11:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2010268"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can I/ should I buy silver inside an ISA/SIPP? Or cash is the best way of buying silver?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Everyone on this forum that I have seen, has said get:-

1. Real physical metal.

2. If you really must have ETF or other paper silver, then make very sure the fund is DEFINITELY backed by 100% metal in the vault. Ideally a vault in Switzerland, although there are those that consider Jersey/Guernsey/IOM ok too. This would be mainly for the person who wishes to trade high volumes quickly to either swap gold for silver and back, or jump in during small dips/spikes, but I am sure there are other good reasons.

3. Shares are also ok if you are prepared to believe mine test-bore assays, or are buying into long-established mines, holding for medium to long term.

Whatever you do, remember the old sayings about values can go up or down, and DYODD. I got some good deals in gold and silver; I got bitten in Palladium, though...
[/quote]



Thank you Old Nis.

Since I have been reading a lot of GEI, I am into physical. It always feels I need to buy more. Its all physical for me, do not understand the rest.

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I am new to this forum, and the idea of investing in gold has lead me to this site. I have been reading through the posts and there is some very useful information however i am still left left undecided and have a few questions to ask but dont know where to direct these questions so please be patient with me and accept my apologies if this is the wrong place to do so.

Firstly as we all know the interest rates for saving accounts are pretty non existant at the moment and they offer no real return on any lump sum. I have been saving now for over 6 years and have about 30k scattered in ISA's and other saving accounts which at the moment only give me less than 1% interest. For this reason i began looking into investing in gold especially now with the price rising daily and reaching all time highs day on day just about. I guess my first question is , it is wise to invest in gold now or is it too late. This brings me to my next question. How do you invest in gold. A lot of the literature i have read all points to buying physical gold bars and sitting on these and then selling them when the price is right. Is this the best method? I assume there is commision on these transactions so is it worth while for the amount i have bearing in mind i dont want to put "all my eggs in one basket" so prefer not to invest the entire sum. Does investing in gold mean you have to buy physical gold for can one trade in gold online for flexibilty of buying and selling options throughout the day.

Failing gold as being a feasibe alternative to conventional saving accounts, does anyone have any opinions or advice on NS&I premium bonds.

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Provided you understand all the caveats about DYODD, I am not a qualified investment adviser (any more) etc, then:

Most of the forum members think that buying gold is an essential part of an investment portfolio. Most of the advice I have seen, has had a recommendation to invest a minimum of 10% in precious metals. Every day that passes increases my level of certainty in my belief that this is vital, particularly when I see the value of fiat money (dollars and Sterling particularly) going down the pan. The fact of interest rates being virtually zero just adds to the certainty. I would have made almost nothing in my investments if it had not been for my purchases of PMs.

Is it still worth it, with the current prices of PMs in general and gold in particular? Every time I look at my first purchases of gold, I get depressed at how cheap they were then. What I mean is not that gold is expensive now, but that those prices will never be seen again, ever. And that when I remember that I thought that perhaps I should not buy any more because the price was at an all-time high (sovereigns at £95 each) I get very irritable with myself when I look now at websites offering HALF - sovereigns a £98 each.

So, the conclusion from my ramblings is that although you may hope and succeed in "buying the dips", if you don't have any gold or silver, GET SOME NOW. I thought my silver was expensive at £328 per kilo (it was, at the time), now a kilo of silver is about £440. Buy physical and sit on it, don't buy ETFs until you have a solid physical base. ETFs can be manipulated and if there is a default, there is a chance they will be worthless.

Buying goldgrams/goldmoney/unallocated gold is for people who have their physical stocks already, and wish to make a bit more by playing the tiny dips and rises of the market. Trading, in the jargon. Best of luck. I am starting to see articles in the mainstream papers about gold; when I start seeing articles about gold in the tabloids, then Joe Public will come onboard, and the price will go into low orbit. By then it will probably be almost too late.

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Firstly many thanks for your detailed reply and informative reply. I have been trawling through mulitple forums over the last few days and the general feeling is it is advisable to invest in physical gold at the moment especially with the price of gold expected to reach 1200-1250 in the coming months. I am almost decided on purchasing a 24 carat. 0.9999 fine bar of 100grams which the current prices should cost approx £2400. Does this sound wise?

Next week looks like it will be interesting for the gold price with Germany, China, India about to announce new gold buys and the current Dubai situation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSWSwhn-AWc

I am guessing this will cause the gold price to increase so i am planning to visit a dealership to discuss the process with them tomorrow (monday).

I have also been "curious" about the idea of "spread betting" on the gold price. There is higher risk of loosing money this way but with a £50-100 stake, if the gold price increases surely this is a wise move at this stage? Any thoughts welcome on this!! Edited by urban_pixie

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[quote name='urban_pixie' date='29 November 2009 - 05:54 PM' timestamp='1259517294' post='2270719']
Firstly many thanks for your detailed reply and informative reply. I have been trawling through mulitple forums over the last few days and the general feeling is it is advisable to invest in physical gold at the moment especially with the price of gold expected to reach 1200-1250 in the coming months. I am almost decided on purchasing a 24 carat. 0.9999 fine bar of 100grams which the current prices should cost approx £2400. Does this sound wise?
[/quote]
I can't advise you in detail, but I would be astounded if you lost money long-term with whatever you wanted to buy. My only concern is that you will get a good deal spread-wise on the single bar, but have difficulty in selling except to a larger bullion dealer (who will naturally try to drive a very hard bargain on the price) when you come to sell it. You may want a little silver and some small gold coins too, but it's up to you, of course. It is the opinion of many in the jewellery supply industry that we were overdue some form of correction and sure enough, the price has dropped a little a few days ago. I myself am going to buy one last wallet-full of gold and silver at a suitable point in the dip if it goes below $1000, which it may not do. Our currency has no safe-haven status unlike the US$ and I can't see it getting stronger. If there is a big stock-market crash (again, a lot of US commentators reckon we are going to get one ere long) then there will be one last boost to the US$ as the managed funds (who should know better, but don't) jump back into US bonds out of fear.

They should be buying gold and silver instead. They won't. They're far too frightened of being sacked for failures of due-diligence if a "radical" purchase goes wrong; no-one, however, will sack them for running with the sheeple and buying US bonds, even if these eventually lose money. IF this happens, however, it will create one last great buying opportunity for gold-bugs (and probably silver-bugs too).

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Been looking on ebay at canadian maples. seems you can get them for anywhere from £16-£17 delivered from apparently reputable sellers.

Anyone got any advice for someone who wants to invest in physical silver? For example, pointers for buying on ebay, what to avoid etc. It seems the vast majority of coins on ebay are unsealed. Sealed ones go for quite a bit more. Is this is a major issue?

How are people storing their coins? Just in plastic coin tubes seems popular... but on the long term will this protect them from markings due to humidity etc?

Going to invest in some silver bars too i reckon so any pointers would be great.

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[quote name='seb197' date='02 March 2010 - 09:35 PM' timestamp='1267565724' post='2410388']
Anyone got any advice for someone who wants to invest in physical silver? For example, pointers for buying on ebay, what to avoid etc. It seems the vast majority of coins on ebay are unsealed. Sealed ones go for quite a bit more. Is this is a major issue?

How are people storing their coins? Just in plastic coin tubes seems popular... but on the long term will this protect them from markings due to humidity etc?

Going to invest in some silver bars too i reckon so any pointers would be great.
[/quote]
Take a look at the tail end of this thread ([u][url="http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=133018&view=findpost&p=2337882"]link[/url][/u]). Might be useful.

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[quote name='seb197' date='02 March 2010 - 09:35 PM' timestamp='1267565724' post='2410388']
Been looking on ebay at canadian maples. seems you can get them for anywhere from £16-£17 delivered from apparently reputable sellers.

Anyone got any advice for someone who wants to invest in physical silver? For example, pointers for buying on ebay, what to avoid etc. It seems the vast majority of coins on ebay are unsealed. Sealed ones go for quite a bit more. Is this is a major issue?

How are people storing their coins? Just in plastic coin tubes seems popular... but on the long term will this protect them from markings due to humidity etc?

Going to invest in some silver bars too i reckon so any pointers would be great.
[/quote]

Cheaper here - http://www.coininvestdirect.com/en/silver_coins/ B)

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yeah i was looking at that website last night. I wanted to just buy a few to se really what they where like. I have read of people off here buying from them but i guess i am jsut wary of spending quite a bit of cash on a first purchase before i feel like i can trust these companies.

Or maybe I should just pump in what i wanted as it seems like a reputable website, well from what i have read on it.

thanks for the response though :D

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http://Coininvestdirect.com (CID) has been a reliable dealer in my experience. I would not hesitate in using them for supply large amounts of gold or silver as the items ordered have always been in top condition and delivered within a week of payment.

For small amounts of silver this place is quite good. [url="http://sarniasilver.com/"]http://sarniasilver.com/[/url] The coins all come individually to avoid VAT and are priced including postage. For small quantities this works out cheaper than CID but CID has free postage after about £2000 order.

Buying on ebay, I personally would only buy bullion coins such as the ones listed in CID silver coin page but others buy old british silver coins. Only buy bars from recognised assayers such as Heraraus, bairds, englehard, Johnson Matthay etc as china ingots may turn out to be lead or solder and are less desirable when the time comes to sell. Edited by endgame

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cool thanks for that.

Yeah i heard about the china ingots potentially being dodgy so would avoid those ones.

Why would say someone buy this:

http://sarniasilver.com/silverrounds.html a 1 Troy oz .999 Silvertowne Bar over say a maple? is it just because people prefer the shape/design etc? or am i being dense!

would silvertowne come under a recognised assayer?

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