casual_squash

Yes, back when the Greek debt crisis was negotiated again..and again...and again.... what really blew me away was the EU's 'reasonable' stance on the situation.

I find it very quaint you still assume this countries direction is set at the national level. It was superseded decades ago. The orders come down from upon high, we simply have the illusion we're voting in policy makers when they are in fact, glorified implementers. I see now the prospect of a Corbyn led Government is a possibility he's off to get his orders from Brussels. Seems a wasted trip to me since his nationalistic manifesto promises go against EU principals.

Rock and hard place. There is no equivalent cash cow waiting in the wings should we leave. If Europe's electorate so valued the EU as claimed (as the benefits so obviously outweigh the cons ) then the remaining members would have no fear to ask their electorate's to stump up more tax to pay for it. Must be worth the extra tax to do away with that annoying member state and carry on. Ultimately this is why a No Deal scenario is extremely likely. We will end up paying an amount because something is better than nothing. Nothing and the wheels come off.

It's laughable to suggest this is a cultural shift, it was a corporatism greed shift, enabled by the Government to allow them to abuse the visa system. This is why Trump is threatening the Visa system now in the US. It's pushing it that these consultancy firms in the third world hiring thousands should exist solely off the back of western business. Precisely this and from what I'm seeing and hearing in the IT industry is companies are now beginning to feel the blow back of outsourcing. This outsourcing and reliance on oversea IT' 'expertise' was always double edged. Over a decade on from when it really took off companies are struggling to find any decent young IT proficient staff now locally. I believe across many industries the need to be IT proficient and possess business/industry knowledge is really beginning to merge. You can't buy industry knowledge off the shelf abroad as easily as you can IT knowledge. I'm not even talking consultant level jobs here. Even what you might consider mid level jobs are requiring a good level of IT knowledge now. The problem is it's neither practical to bring in oversea staff to fill this void on a visa nor are there decent staff available in the local economy to fill it. Why you ask? Well I believe it's because IT's been such a high risk job of being outsourced for over the past decade that young people opted to go into other more secure industries and now there's a massive shortage. I'm not complaining about the current climate because I'm about to start a new role, nearly doubling my current salary to more or less go hand hold a company how to manage an IT system. The main reason they're paying so much is that I'm bringing to the table both IT and industry knowledge with me. That kind of knowledge that takes years to accumulate, not buy it in from Asia on a visa. One way or the other I suspect the culture shift will have to change back.

He is not wrong from my stand point. I work for a global software house with thousands of staff in India The company is suffering from an absolute dearth of resource right now across Europe, (mainly in the UK) specially for both consultants and even support staff with both IT AND industry knowledge. Guess what, all those India programmers they have aren't saving their bacon. Even the clients themselves of my company have similar issues. The problem goes back to the labour days when they kicked open the visa door to Asia. It smashed a booming IT industry and frankly for good decade made it redundant for graduates to bother learning code anymore. Why bother, the money wasn't in it anymore. This simply hollowed out the IT pool here which has lead us to the current situation. The only good consultants and project managers I know personally are ex programmers who are late 30's and older who can communicate. The idea this deficit in local IT talent can be back filled by flying in Asian staff on Visas is ridiculous. The problem is no one will bother to learn code now to get IT literate because the job of programming itself is redundant in the west. Yet all the new blood in my office are pathetically IT literate.

You'll find many Northerners regards 1975 as the vote that impacted them the worst, not so far a hypothetical situation we don;t yet have an outcome on. As it stands North England did far better better historically outside the EU than since it joined. That's the cold simple truth that cannot be denied. The only winners in the current arrangement is by and large the South East and prior to Brexit there was zero prospects of that changing whatsoever.

Well yes, the issue always was our economy was arranged/rigged unevenly to the single market when we first joined. Fast forward today's climate and the clue alone explains why the brexit vote hardened the further North you went in England. You are preaching to the converted, yes a Brexit will cause an adjustment to the current economic arrangement but you continually refuse to acknowledge the people who were thrown overboard in this current setup and continually criticise them for voting for change. It's difficult to convince a disenfranchised electorate to prop up an economy they were never part of in the first place.

Tosh. Similar to the hypocritical Polish. Happy to expect full rights to travel other places, happy to deny it to others back on the home farm. I've visited Cluj numerous times as work required it recently. A few beers with the locals and their views on Gypsies and blacks would have you blushing.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/15/austria-set-to-elect-youngest-eu-leader-in-move-to-the-right In other news, the EU continues to go from strength to strength. Let me guess, nothing to see here

I see that 'worthless' vote to the AFD in Germany hasn't changed a thing.....oh hang on....Merkel's agreed to a refugee limit. It's almost as if....it wasn't a wasted vote. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/09/germany-merkel-agrees-to-200000-refugees-cap-in-bid-to-build-coalition

Hence why Farage is pushing for hard Brexit, he knows European politics and knows the reality. It's hard Brexit or we grind on in a no mans land transition as the EU project just surges from crisis to crisis.

and to think in two years time anything negotiated for Brexit has to be signed off by all remaining EU members. Pissing into the wind springs to mind. Despite the bluster which is nothing but a front for voters back home, this 'transitional period' is something the EU will prefer also (behind closed doors) because they can see the impending crisis. The EU will want to avoid a disorderly Brexit just as much as the UK government does. This is an extinctional crisis for the project, I think with the German election result clear, many people are finally beginning to wake up to the reality which is not too far down the road now.

Well because it's the same tired cliche of Britain isolating herself. It's just empty rhetoric that the likes of Farage never espoused. A points based system is not isolation, plenty of our countries operate one without being accused of isolation. We'd be no more isolated than we were pre the EU.

I'll ensure to remember this when Merkel starts chasing those lost votes to the AFD. I'm sure the Brexit negotiation team will too when Germany begins to have it's cake to eat on their own EU membership.

So, you'd apply that same logic to house prices presumably. No adjustment ever, lets just continue with insane prices as the law of unintended consequences of popping that particular bubble will be worse anyway. So effectively the winning argument for the EU is more or less one of an institutionalised prisoner, fearing the unknown beyond the shitty prisons walls your used to. I'm glad we're at least acknowledging the reality of what the EU is. That's progress at least. I'm glad to listen to Yanis own experience of EU belligerence in the face of economic reality but no, I don't buy into the give up attitude. He was portrayed as some superior mastermind during the Greek negotiations, they chewed him up and got him sacked in no time.