sesim

Exactly.. they wouldn't do this unless they are completely sh*tt*ng themselves / futures and options traders are vanishing / cme's viability itself is at stake. But then again, they might be lying when they say they will do what they promise. Which independant authority/regulator will verify their claims - who was meant to be overseeing MF global to ensure that segregated client positions were indeed segregated ? And what happened there ? If this news had come from some super-new-really-independent-regulator with teeth that would mince through their gonads in a single bite if they failed to fulfill, then fair enough. But who is going to trust the CME with their track record ? Buy Physical not Virtual.. every step of the way. Edit: Smelling mistakes.

So you have traded paper with an average shelf live of 40 years, backed by the promise of politicians, for metal that has intrinsic worth through it's scarcity, which has been a currency for thousands of years. Please reconsider your position. Then laugh your head off.

What a woeful post. The most interesting thing is the question - what can you possibly gain from posting it ? And there's the straw man. Then you go on an arrogantly tell us what you KNOW is right.. based on.. Sir, with the greatest respect, have a glug of your nickname and have a lie down.

Shall I bend down and rub my face in a french turd or an english turd, or take a sniff at both of the festering piles and walk away.

I think some dealers just have really lousy supply chains and/or are paranoid about holding too much in a volatile market. I only bought once from ATS - same experience as you - except they didn't even have kruggies when I went. I also wonder if it's the case that if dealers buy stock just before a engineered take-down erm... 'market correction', they obviously won't want to sell it below the price they paid for it. So until they buy more at a lower price/new stock arrives, it just sits on their shelf gathering dust... until the price rises so they can make a profit on it again.

By 'demise', someone must have broken into your house and either: 1. Reduced the physical quantities that you are holding 2. Swapped your stash for a lesser purity No ? Surely you don't mean the price in printable-to-oblivion paper... ? My hunch is that the proportions of 'stackers' to 'traders' is moving towards the 'stackers'. As complex systems (economies, interlinked globally) become ever more complex / become more chaotic as they teeter towards collapse, it will be even more difficult to be on the 'trader' side. Expect double-digit +/- % movements PER DAY on the worst days in 2012. Stackers just sit back and watch the show. Traders panic and hope. You need to get into the mindset where the only time that you're obsessively watching metals prices are when you don't have any physical in your possession. When you have some, it's much easier to relax, and you stop looking at prices, and start counting ounces and purity, and let the price fixers do what they will.

I'm sure young Timmy Geithner has already read the riot act to all the EU leaders on his recent EU tour... ie USA/UK will consider it an act of war if the EU banks/goverments attempt to trigger their CDS payouts on Greek, Spanish defaults. Gold help the US/UK banking system if they are triggered, since most of the insurance for this debts was issued by USA/UK banks. I suspect this is why Merkel is in such a horrible place... all EU politicians know that it's the people, not the banks who will be paying all the debt down. Unless the people say 'No', which is the most likely outcome.. at some stage.

Fixed.

But there is a silver lining to every cloud. Up until now the EU really hasn't had a 'face' that the people can rise up against. The EU has shown itself through very subtle rule changes that have incrementally increased their own power while diluting national governments. But now they have stepped up and stuck their heads over the parapet by installing puppet goverments in Italy and Greece. So now the people know who the enemy is, who to rally against, which flag to burn, and who needs to be strung up from a lampost. This is a good thing.

Not so fast... Christian Noyer is none other than the chairman of board of directors of the Bank Of International Settlements .. a heavy hitter in the central banking world. He's not just an ECB policymaker.. but the head of all central bankers' policy makers. ie. Merv's boss in that sphere of influence. Expect Merv to squeak a little at most, then bow down. The french have a lot of people in high positions of power.. head of BIS, head of IMF etc. We really are on the fringes of decision making, no matter how much Cast Iron dave insists he's at the table.

Also, in the coming storm, any laws that applied at that time can be rewritten with the stroke of a pen in an emergency situation. If people think their goverments will allow them to keep their wealth and respect previous law, I would prepare yourselves for a surprise. At some point, I think the only thing that goverments can do to stop collapse will be to do massive raids on peoples wealth - savings accounts, pensions.. everything. My dad keeps on going on about the 85K savings guarantee... this is only in place to stop runs on banks / to make people believe that the promise is true. Good luck with that one. Goverments will have to fulfil their obligations from the people who have the wealth.. I think it's that simple in sh*tstorm scenario, for the sake of keeping the peace / stopping civil society from collapsing. They might not have time to get rid of the debt via inflation if there really is a 'crash' moment.. unless that crash moment involves adding a zero onto the currency. (Anyone, I'll take my TFH and stop hogging the thread.. I'm way off topic.

Yep, good point. It's possible that the EU might not even exist as a legal entity to attempt a claw-back. So then it would be down to each individual country to attempt the claw-back instead. And they might be able to do this because you are a citizen of country X, and I would guess there are international laws around your citizenship that means the goverment can do this (regardless of your actual tax/ordinary residency). Individual countries are striking deals with the swiss all the time on things like witholding taxes, for the citizens of each of those countries.

Will moving money to the 'stronger' EU countries really give anyone any more real security, since at some point the weaker countries will probably just default on their debt/leave the EUR, meaning that all the 'stronger' countries will be completely shafted. ie. Greece/Spain etc. thought they had debts, but soon they have none after they have defaulted. (Good for them!) Germany/Holland thought they had assets (money left, bonds lent to weaker countries + interest), but soon they will have none. (Bad for them!) I don't have any answers, other than maybe getting your money out of the EU eg. to switzerland, and into other currencies eg. CAD, NOK, CHF to spread the risk, and/or buy physical gold and silver. But even then, soon switzerland will institute capital controls to prevent a landslide of money flying their way, so the window to do the above is shortening by the day. And even then, the EU will probably attempt a claw-back of EU funds that have drained to switzerland. This is going to be a complete sh*tstorm when it kicks off properly.. no place to hide.

What a side-show this summit has been. - Q. how much debt still needs to be rolled over in the next year -> A. An impossible amount - Q. who is lining up to be buyers. -> A. No person, country or sovereigh wealth fund is that stoopid, even this morning - Q. how are the current debts more servicable this morning ? -> A. They're not - Q. given the current unpayable debt loads/interest payments, when can these rules be 'enforced'? -> After either grinding austerity for decades/hyperinflation has finished - Q. why do EU leaders think this is a political rather than financial problem ? -> A. Because they want to be seen as the geniuses who saved the system / they will fail - Q. what is now preventing the whole system from collapsing / a massive 'european spring' / demands for EU heads on lampposts > A. Nothing. Nice job Merkozy and Dave. Getting to the heart of the problem I see.

Exactly. Just a minor correction if you don't mind: "We are expecting the general public to wake up and do the sensible thing - to remove their savings from this toxic banking system resulting in massive contagious bank runs across all UK banks, so we will now take dog sh1t as collateral from insolvent banks"